Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1. Direct examination by Mr. Ingham. Cross-examination by Captain Black. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Assisted Schuettler in arresting Louis Lingg and then searched his room. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): items confiscated from the Arbeiter-Zeitung office or the defendants' homes (vol.K 532), arrest of Lingg (vol.K 529), Louis Lingg and bomb-making (vol.K 533). JACOB LOWENSTEIN, a witness called and sworn on behalf of the people was examined in chief by Mr. Ingham and testified as follows: Q What is you name? A Jacod Lowenstein. Q What is your business? A Police force Q Connected with what station? A East Chicago avenue station. Q Were you present at the time Lingg was arrested? A I was. Q Tell what took place?
Testimony of Jacob Lowenstein (first appearance), 1886 July 28.
Volume K, 529-547, 19 p.
Lowenstein, Jacob.
Officer, Chicago Police Department.
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[Image, Volume K, Page 529]
objected to,; objection overruled and exception by defendants.
A When I entered the house I found Lingg on Schuttler's back.
Q How did you get into the room?
A went around the back way from the front, or went at the back door.
I looked in the window and could not see anybody. The next thing I heard, I heard jumping on the floor, and then started around to get around to him, and broke the door in. When I got around back, I found Lingg on Schuttlers back.
Q What position were they in?
A Lingg had is right arm over Schuttler and Schuttler had Lingg's thumb in his mouth. Lingg had his left hand on his gun
Q What do you mean by gun?
A Revolver. Schuttler had both hands hold of the revolver. Found them in that position.
Q What took place?
A I struck him with a little cane I had.
Q What position was Schuttler in at the time?
A He was stooped over, standing. I struck Lingg in the ear with a twenty-five cent cane I had in my hand, and it didn't have any effect on him, and so I dropped the cane on the floor and grabbed him by the left arm, by his coat sleeve. He jerked away, and he tore the sleeve all the way up. Then I grabbed him by the throat and dragged him up against the wall. As I had lost my come-alongs I asked Schuttler to let me have his. I had him under control. He said he would not allow himself to be shackled. I told him he had to, that we would have to take him along. After we got the come-alongs on him we took him to the Hinman street station.
Q What conversation did you have with him in the room while you were where?
A He said quite frequently, "shoot me right here before
I will go with you." That was all the conversation I heard him say. "Kill me".
Q Then you took him to the Hinman street station?
A Yes sir.
Q From Hinman street station where did you take him?
A To east Chicago avenue.
Q Did you have any conversation on the way?
A Officer Schuttler said to him on the wagon "Lingg, why do you want to kill me. We aint such bad fellows". He said: "If I had killed you and your partner and put a bullet through my own head, it would be the happiest hour of my life.
Q Are you one of the officer?s that went to Lingg't room
A Yes sir.
Q When did you go there?
A May 7th.
Q What time in the day did you go?
A Between ten and eleven o'clock.
Q Who did you go with?
A Officer Whalen, Stift, Schuttler, Cushman and Mc Cormick.
Q Tell what you found in the house?
A We went to the house and found nobody there at all--looked in the windows and the door was locked; and finally we pushed in the door and went in. The first thing we done was officer Whalen looked through the house to see if there was anybody in the house. He came back by the front door.
He went in rather to the house and said: "Nobody's here"
we then started to search the house. I went to the front room and from there to a little bed room in the southeast corner of the house. There was a bed in there and a washstand and a trunk, and I think a little shelf up in the corner with some bottles on it. I looked in the closet, and the first thing I saw I saw a lot of shelves in there, and also some loaded cartraddges. Officer Stift came in and I says, "Here is some shelves".
Q Don't tell the conversation?
A I then looked around on the shelves, and found these shelves and on the floor I found some metal and also some lead.
Q Look at those articles (indicating a box containing shells)?
A Those are the shells I found.
Q Where did you find them?
A In the closet of Lingg's room.
Q And some lead?
A Yes sir.
Q What else did you find there?
A I found some lead, some babbit metal, some sheets of lead.
Q Any of the lead here that you found
A I found that (indicating.)
Q You found those bolts?
A I found those bolts in the wash stand.
Q What do you mean by in the wash stand?
A There was a wash stand standing there in the room, a home made wash stand with the lids up. I raised the lid up and these bolts lay in the top. There was no bowl in there,
nothing like that.
Q Look at these pieces of metal I show you?
A I found this metal there. I found them after I had opened the trunk. They were in that dinner box.
Q Found them where?
A In the dinner box, with some dynamite bombs loaded.
Q What do you mean by a dinner box?
A That little Japan box there, dinner box.
Q This box? (indicating box)
A Yes sir.
Q What did you find in that?
A I found four bombs.
Q Round or long?
A They were gas pipe bombs.
Q At that time they were loaded?
A Two of them were loaded, the two in the bottm were loaded
Q Is that one of them (indicating)
A Yes sir.
Q The charge is now withdrawn?
A Yes sir.
Q Do you know who withdrew it?
A Capttin Schaak withdrew them, unloaded them.
THE COURT: Did you see anybody take out the charge, were present when they did it.?
A I got there just after they unloaded them.
Q I thought you were the one that unloaded them?
A No sir, I was not.
Mr GRINNELL: They were unloaded pursuant to the directions the other day.
Mr. INGHAM: Q How may bombs did you find in that box?
A When I first opened up the trunk, this cover dropped out dropped down, and with that a remington rifle fell down with the stock off it-- as I was raising the lid up, it fell down.
Q Look at this rifle (shows witness rifle)?
A That is the one.
Q Was it loaded or unloaded?
A It was loaded.
Q Do you know how much there was in it?
A It was loaded right up so I could not unload it right there, the pin catched a little bit, and my command was to unload it. I then opened the trunk, and found a lot of papers and books in the top of the trunk, took them all out, and put them in the bed, and found that little dinner box with the bombs in it. I took them out in the other room and set them on the table, and told officer Whalen I thought I had found some dynamite which he should take down to the station which he did.
Q You spoke to which officer?
A Whalen. In going back into the room i found in a grey stocking a round dynamite bomb, in taking up these books and one thing and another; and as I got back the first thing I put my hand on was a grey stocking with a dynamite bomb loaded.
I then left the house and took it to the station and reported to Captain Schack.
Q Look at the bomb which I now show you (shows witness bomb)
A That is the one.
Q Where did you find it?
A I found that on the bed in a grey stocking-- in taking out these thngs out of the trunk it was right among those articles, and it rolled down.
Q You lifted the bomb out of the trunk and put it on the bed
A Onto the bed, Yes sir.
Q It was in one of the stockings?
A Yes sir, a grey stocking.
Q You say it was loaded at the time?
A Yes sir, it was. I took it to the station to Captain Schaack, the east Chicago avenue station, and I told him what I found, and he told me to go back to the house and search thoroughly.
Q What did you do?
A I went back to the house. In the mean time we had left officer Schuttler there on guard and told him if any body should come to arrest them. When I got back from the station, we searched through the house thoroughly.
Q How many bombs did you yourself find?
A I found five in all, three loaded and two empty.
Q What kind were they?
A Two gas pipes loaded, one round metal bomb loaded, and two round empty gas pipes, with two pieces of solder.
Q Where did you find those five?
A Found those in the closet of Lingg's room, the room he occupied.
Q Is that the same room the trunk was in?
A Yes sir, one side off to the right of it.
Q Did you see any metal there yourself?
A Yes sir.
Q With pieces of lead?
A Yes sir.
Q I wish you would point out those to the jury.
A I found all these here (indicating)
Q Where did you find that?
A Between the two houses.
Q Did you see these peices?
A I found these on the floor in the closet.
Q What was the condition of the ground?
A It had been dug up a little. Sand had been kind of thrown over it a little bit, covered up this lead was.
Where did you find this piece of lead?
A In that dinner box,.
Q What is that?
A That is solder.
Q These two peices of solder you found in that dinner box?
A In that dinner box
Q These other pieces you found where'?
A Those other pieces were found in the closet or little closet press you might call it on the floor.
Q Did you find any tools there?
A I found two hammers.
Q Which ones?
A That blast hammer, and one a little smaller, one kind of pointed.
Q Is that it?
A Yes sir.
Q What else in the shape of tools did you find?
A I found a couple of iron bits and drills.
Q Pick those out if they are here?
A I found those (indicating)
Q and one drill smaller than either of these?
A Yes sir.
Q Was there any thing else you found there that you remember of?
A I found a two quart pail with a little saw dust in the bottom of it. It looked like sawdust.
Q What did you find out it was?
A I found out it was dynamite. I found a little tin quart basin under the bed with qa little piece of fuse in it, and also some saw dust or dynamite-- I didn't know at the time
it was dynamite-- but afterwards learned it was.
Q Anything else that you can recall now?
A Some time after I was looking through the trunk and found some little dynamite fuse two or three inches long in the bottom of the trunk.
Q Were there any caps-- did you find any caps?
A I did nor find those, No sir.
Q Were you in the closet?
A I was.
Q What was the condition of the closet?
A The landlord of the house had called our attention, was looking around there, and said there was a lot of plaster, mortar lying out back of the yard. We then went up stairs and looked at the closet, and tore the baseboard which had been freshly nailed down, off; and the nails were projecting out a little bit. We tore them away and put our hand down there and I spoke up and says: "There is where the plaster comes from"-- it was torn out all the way around on the baseboard.
Q You found those holes there?
A
A Yes sir.
Motion by defendants to exclude testimony of this witness denied, and exception by defendants
CROSS EXAMINATION
By Mr. Black.
Q How many of these bolts and nuts did you find altogether
A I didn't count them. I put them in the trunk, put every thing in the trunk and took it to the station.
Q You didn't count them at all?
A No sir.
Q Did any body count them that you know of?
A Not that I know of.
Q How many bombs did you find in this dinner box.
A I found two loaded and two empty.
Q Found in other words four bombs in the tin dinner box?
A Yes sir.
Q In addition to which you saw the two bars of solder?
A Four bombs and two pieces of solder.
Q What was the size of the bombs"?
A They were made out of gas pipe, I should judge about six inches long, perhaps longer than that-- I did not measure.
Q Were they all made the same size, the gas pipe?
A No sir, two large ones and two small ones.
Q Was this one of the small ones or one of the lareg ones?
A I think that is one of the large ones
Q Where is the small ones?
A I don't know, around here somewhere.
Q Where were the four in other words, Let us have all four of them. That is three-- now, do you know where the fourth one is?
A I do not.
Q Was the fourth one the same size as the smaller one?
A I could not say. I think it is the same size as this I loaded one. I think the two bottoms ones were the same size.
Those other two lay on top with a piece of tin solder and the two loaded i ones in the bottom.
Q Two of the pieces of metal that you found in the boxes were just in the shape you have in your hand?
A The two loaded ones lay in the bottom and these two empty ones on the top, and two pieces of solder between them.
Q Laying in between those two pieces of pipe?
A Yes sir.
Q They are not bombs until they are loaded?
A No sir, they are not.
Q They are gas pipe until they are loaded?
A Yes sir.
Q So that you found there two pieces of gas pipe with tin or solder in between them?
A Yes sir.
Q And found two bombs?
A Two loaded bombs.
Q Two bombs--- they are not bombs until they are loaded?
A They were loaded.
Q If it is not a bomb until it is loaded a piece of gas pipe is not a bomb until it is loaded?
A I have just said-- I said in connection with this, the two tops ones were empty, and the two lower ones were poaded bombs.
Q Now how many loaded bombs did you find there altogether?
A I found three in all.
Q Three loaded in all?
A Yes sir.
Q In addition to that you found two pieces of gas pipe?
A Yes sir.
Q That is the total as far as bombs are concerned?
A As far as that time is concerned, that is all.
Q Which was that, the first or last?
A I had not left the house at all-- that is I went out of the house, went down stairs, went to the telephone box and telephoned, but there was officers in the house at the time.
Q You did not go down to the station but simply went down and telephoned?
A I went down stairs and telephoned to the station.
Q Then you went on with your search?
A Yes sir.
Q Did you find any more bombs?
A After telephoning, I found a round bomb in a stocking.
Q Take your whole search all the way through, how many loaded bombs did you find?
A I found three.
Q That was the total find of loaded bombs in that place?
A Officer Schuttler found one-- that made the fourth.
Q The one found in the stocking down in the trunk?
A I was not there at the time. I was gone.
Q You found three in all?
A Three in all.
Q In addition to that three pieces of gas pipe?
A Yes sir.
Q Your search with reference to the baseboard discolsed the
fact that a baseboard had been tacked on there recently?
A In searching that place, our attention was called as I stated before by thelandloard--
Q (interrupring) I asked you question. Will the reporter please read it?
(The stenographer here read the last question)
A Yes sir.
Q The nails were left projecting somewhat, were not they
A A little bit.
Q Therewas not any difficulty in observing that a base board had been tacked on there?
A If a man did not know it, he would not notice, if he did not look sharp and find it out.
Q Were the nails projecting?
A The nails had not been counter sunk.
Q Had not been counter sunk?
A No sir.
Q No putty put in?
A No sir.
Q On taking up the baseboard you discovered the lathing had been cut away?
A No sir, I found the lath and plaster cut away, studding and every thing else, and up above that I found a scantling piece nailed up as above so it could not go up any farther, but it would go between the two floors, and I searched around there with my arms.
Q And did not find anything?
A Nothing.
Q How long a piece of scantling was that that was tacked
in there where the studding was cut off?
A It was between the studding.
Q Between how many?
A I don't know-- they used to build houses in olden times and used to put up then fourteen to sixteen inches apart.
Q How many between?
A I should judge the closet was about four feet one way, and might have been four by four.
Q On which side of the closet was it this baseboard had been put on and the scantling put in?
A All the way around.
Q Clear around?
A Yes sir.
Q You found also some peices of lead these?
A I did, sir.
Q Those are the peices that you identified here?
A Yes sir.
Q Have you produced here in court all that you found the there?
A All that I found Yes sir.
Q That was on what day?
A That was on the 7th day of May.
Q Lingg was not there?
A Lingg was not there.
Q That was on Seliger's house?
A Yes sir, 442, Sedgwick street.
Q Do you know whether Seliger was arrested?
A I believe so.
Q Before or after that search?
A After that search.
Q Did you have any search warrant at the time you made that search?
A No sir.
Q Now, you took part in this arrest of Lingg?
A I did.
Q You had no warrant for his arrest?
A No sir.
Q That was on the 14th day of May
A Yes sir.
Q Ten days after the Haymarket?
A Yes sir.
Q You and officer Schuttler wetn down there together for the purpose of making that arrest?
A We looked for him for a whole week, from the 7th to the 14th.
Q You looked for him for a week, and never got a warrant dueing that time?
A No sir.
Q You went down there for the purpose of making that arrest
A If we found him.
Q You went to see you could find him?
A Yes sir.
Q What are your come-alongs'
A They are a little chain with two handles on.
Q What are the handles for?
A To hold a man so he can't get away.
Q They are species of handcuffs?
A Somethings similar to handcuffs
Q The idea being to clasp a come-along on the writsts of the man you want to come along?
A They are a little chain which twists round the wrist, with two little handels on.
Q You hold the handles and take a twist on him, and make him come along?
A Yes sir.
Q That is the reason you call them comealongs?
A Yes sir.
Q You were provided with them?
A Officer Schuttler was.
Q Did you talk in German or English?
A I spoke in German
Q What language did Lingg speak in?
A He spoke in German?
Q Can you tell me the words in German?
A He says (the witness here gave the German words) He said: "You shoot me dead here before I will allow myself to be shackled.
Q He was opposed to being shackled?
A Yes. that is what he told me.
Q He did not like the idea of being taken out in the street with comealongs between a couple of officers?
A He did not know at the time we were officers. We were there in plain dress. He did not know who we were.
Q How long have you been in detictive service?
A About a year.
Q How long have you been connected with the police service of Chicago?
A Three years and a half.
Q How long have you gone out to arrest people without warrants?
A Objected to.
Q Is it customary or not customary with officers, with detectives in the police force to make searches and arrest people without warrants?
Mr. GRINELL: It was to the honor and credit of the police that they arrested him without a warrant.
Mr. BLACK: What have you to say.
Mr. GRINELL: I presume I said,,-- I intended to say that it was to the honor and crdeit of the police that they waited for no warrant and acted.
Mr. BLACK: So that is you position, is it. In other words they violated the express provision of the law of the state, and the constitution of the state-- I am glad to have that on record.
Mr. GRINELL: We will talk about that later.
Mr. BLACK: We will sees whether it is to the honor of the police force to have them disregard the constitution and the laws.
Mr. GRINELL: We will discuss that later.
Mr BLACK: Q Will you tell me in German if you can what was
said by Lingg in the patrol wagon when your comrade asked him why he wanted to kill him?
A Officer Schuttler said to him in German. He said; (the witness here gave the language in German) I am not quite up in the German language. If I made a mistake, I hope to be excused.
Q You are not German born?
A I a American born German parents
Q You have given the words as nearly as you can remember used by the officer and by Lingg?
A Yes sir.
Court adjourned to July 29th, 1886 at ten o'clock A.M.