Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct examination by Mr. Foster. Cross-examination by Mr. Ingham. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al. Attended the meeting of the American Group at the Arbeiter-Zeitung office and then went to the Haymarket meeting on May 4, 1886. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): socialists and/or socialism (vol.M 45), "Revenge" circular (vol.M 51), the Arbeiter-Zeitung (vol.M 41), meaning of "Ruhe" (vol.M 46), Greif's Hall (vol.M 48), arrangements made for the Haymarket meeting (vol.M 44), weapons in the crowd (vol.M 44), the American Group (vol.M 41), International Rifles (vol.M 470, Schwab, Michael (vol.M 42), attendance of women and children at labor meetings and rallies (vol.M 41).
Testimony of William A. Patterson, 1886 Aug. 5.
Volume M, 41-54, 13 p.
Patterson, William A.
Printer.
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[Image, Volume M, Page 41]
WILLIAM A. PATTERSON,
a witness called and sworn on behalf of the defendants, was examined in chief by Mr. Foster, and testified as follows:
Q What is your full name?
A William A. Patterson.
Q Where do you live?
A 140 So. Green street.
Q What is your business?
A Printer.
Q How long have you resided in Chicago?
A About two years and a half.
Q I will ask you whether on the 4th of May you were a member of the American Group and of the International Workingmen's Association?
A I was.
Q You may state hether or not you were present at the Arbeiter Zeitung, or in the building of the Arbeiter Zeitung office, on the evening of May 4th?
A I was.
Q For what purpose?
Objected to: objection withdrawn.
A I saw it advertised in the News and came in response to that call.
Q What was that?
A The business of the meeting was to organize the working women of Chicago.
Q The organization of the working women?
A Yes sir.
Q You saw a notice calling for the meeting in the news?
A Yes.
Q That day?
A Yes.
Q Who was present at that meeting?
A I could not call the other names. I didn't know all their faces. I could name a half dozen or more.
Q Call the names of those you do know who were present?
A Mr. Parsons, Mr. Fielden, Mrs. Parsons, Mrs. Holmes, Mr. Schwab, I saw there, myself, Mr. Waldo, Mr. Brown and Mr. Schnyder. I could not be positive of the others.
Q About what time in the evening did you go there?
A I should say it was near eight o'clock.
Q Was Mr. Spies there?
A I didn't see Mr. Spies there.
Q You went there about eight o'clock?
A Yes sir.
Q Now, I will ask you whether anything occurred there with reference to a telephone message in your presence?
A There was a call at the telephone. It was answered by a young man in the office. A clerk. I believed they wanted a speaker at Deering.
Q How long after eight o'clock was it, or how long after you say you went there, the telephone rang and it was announced a speaker was wanted at Deering?
A I should think it was ten or fifteen minutes after the meeting opened that the call came.
Mr. Grinnell: That was after this meeting opened?
A After this meeting opened.
Mr. Foster: Q What time in the evening would it be according to your best judgment?
A It would be a little after eight o'clock.
Q If you got there at eight and ten or fifteen minutes after the meeting opened, it would be ten or fiteen minutes after eight?
A I am only estimating the time, because I didn't have any watch and didn't look at any time piece.
Q Was there any conversation there in your hearing, in the presence of Mr. Schwab, as to was wanted at Deering?
Objected to.
Q What was said?
A I think a boy asked if they wanted a German or English speaker. I don't know what was said but I know that Mr. Schwab's name was mentioned there to go. I think that is about it.
Q Now, then, after that how long did Mr. Schwab remain in that meeting?
A That I couldn't say. I saw his face there and he disappeared --- I don't know whether he went out or not. I didn't notice him any more except once in that meeting.
Q After this telephone message when the statement was made that they wanted a speaker at Deering soon after that you say Schwab was absent?
A I didn't notice him any more. I saw him just once in the meeting, about the time the message came in.
Q How long did that meeting last?
A It lasted from twenty minutes to half an hour, I should think.
Q At any time before the conclusion of that meeting, I will ask you what occurred, if anything, with reference to speakers at the haymarket meeting?
A Yes sir.
Q What was it?
A A gentleman came in and said they wanted speakers at the haymarket.
Was there anything said about who they wanted?
A I don't believe there was. I did not notice that part of it, if there was, I know he said they wanted speakers ---whether he designated the speakers, I don't know.
Q Who was it came in and said speakers were wanted at the haymarket?
A There was a man with a mustache and goatee, I think his name was Rau--I didn't know his name at that time.
Q You say you didn't know his name?
A I knew he was connected with the office.
Q Is the man Balthasar Rau?
A That is the name, yes sir.
Q How long was it before the meeting adjourned, that Balthasar Rau came and said that they wanted speakers at the haymarket?
A I think it was some ten minutes before it--- it was ten or fifteen.
Q When you went to the meeting at the Arbeiter Zeitung office, did you know of the haymarket meeting that night?
A I had heard of it incidentally, and I saw it in a paper, the circular in the paper. And I heard of it on the street, a man told me there was to be a meeting at haymarket---who it was I don't remember.
Q A circular in what paper?
A A newspaper.
Q What newspaper?
A I think I saw it in the News--- some man distributed circulars on the street, and was calling for me.
Q Did you see the circular?
A I saw the circular laying there, but did not read it.
Q After the adjournment of your meeting, did you go to the haymarket meeting?
A I did.
Q Who was speaking when you got there?
A Mr. Spies was just about concluding his speech.
Q How long did Spies speak after you got there?
A I should say three minutes, not much more.
Q Who commenced to speak after Spies was done?
A Mr. Parsons.
Q How long did you hear Mr. Parsons speak?
A I did not hear Parsons speak a great while. I did not stay long at the meeting.
Q About how many minutes did you hear Parsons speak?
A I don't think over ten or fifteen minutes---not that long.
Q Then where did you go?
A I went home.
Q You resided the same place you do now?
A The same place, yes.
Q Are you a married man?
A I am not.
Q Do you read German?
A No sir.
Q You say you were a member at that time of the American Group?
A Yes.
Q You are a socialist, I presume?
A I am.
Q I will ask you whether or not at the time you went to
the meeting or during the meeting at the Arbeiter Zeitung office, or at the haymarket, or at any time during that day of the 4th of May or any time before that, or any time the night of the 4th you heard of the word Ruhe, or had any explanation of its meaning?
A I never noticed the word or heard of its meaning, until I saw it in the trial---that is the first I heard of it---just came up in the papers in this trial.
Q You had heard nothing and knew nothing of the word Ruhe on the 4th of May or that night?
A No sir.
Cross Examination by
Mr. Ingham.
Q How long have you lived in the city?
A Two years and a half.
Q Where did you live before coming here?
A I came here direct from Indianapolis. I stayed there a week.
Q Where did you live before that?
A I came from Steubensville, Ohio.
Q How long were you there?
A Three weeks.
Q Where did you live before that?
A Pittsburg.
Q How long did you live in Pittsburg?
A About nine months.
Q How long were you a member of the American Group?
A About a year, may be a little more.
Q The first group you ever belonged to?
A Yes---no. I beg your pardon. I belonged to one in Philadelphia.
Q What group did you belong to in Philadelphia?
A I don't remember distinctly. I know one that met.
Q An English speaking group?
A Yes, they spoke English.
Q How long were you a member of that group?
A Several months---I can't say how long.
Q Was that a group of the International?
A Yes sir.
Q You belonged to this one about a year, the one here?
A Yes sir.
Q You are acquaunted then with Parsons?
A I am.
Q Spies?
A Yes sir.
Q Fielden?
A Yes sir.
Q Are you acquainted with Schwab?
A I know him by sight.
Q Did you belong to the armed group?
A I did.
Q The armed section?
A That is what they call it.
Q You are a member of the armed section?
A As long as it existed, I believe--as long as they were organized.
Q Did you attend every meeting of the armed section?
A I did not.
Q Did you drill with it?
A I did.
Q Where did you drill?
A In the hall.
Q Where was the hall?
A Greif's hall.
Q How often did you drill there?
A Once a week, I guess.
Q You were present, you say, at the office of the Arbeiter Zeitung?
A Yes sir.
Q You heard the telephone message come there?
A I did.
Q Who was present at the time that message came, the Deering message?
A I cannot call the names. I have called those I can remember.
Q Those that you can remember that were present at the time that message came there?
A Well, Mr. Parsons was there, Mr. Fielden was there, Mr. Snyder was there, Mr. Waldo was there, Mrs. Parsons, Mrs. Holmes, Mr. Schwab, and other parties, I can't recall their names.
Q A man by the name of Brown?
A I amn't positive Brown was there. I think he was.
Q A man by the name of Dusey?
A He was in the meeting---I don't know that he was there that night.
Q At any rate Parsons and Fielden were there?
A Yes sir.
Q Schwab was there?
A That is the best of my recollection.
Q You say another message came about the haymarket meeting?
A Yes sir, it didn't come by telephone.
Q Who brought it?
A A man by the name of Rau.
Q What did he say?
A He said he needed speakers at the haymarket meeting.
Q What time was it Schwab left your meeting?
A I don't know.
Q About what time?
A I saw him once during the meeting ---that is all I can say.
Q What time was it this message came from Deering?
A About four or five minutes after the meeting opened.
Q When did the meeting open?
A Near eight o'clock.
Q Called for eight o'clock?
A I don't remember that.
Q Don't you remember it was not eight?
A I don't remember the time---near that time.
Q Rau came in and said they wanted speakers at the haymarket?
A Yes sir.
Q Had Schwab gone at that time?
A I don't think he had.
Q You think he was still there?
A Yes sir.
Q Do you think Rau and Schwab went together?
A I could not say that.
Q You went there to the haymarket?
A I did.
Q You were there how long?
A Fifteen or twenty minutes.
Q Who did you go to the haymarket with?
A A man by the name of Myers.
Q Was he a member of that group?
A I think he is.
Q Was he at a meeting of the group that night?
A Yes sir.
Q At the time you left did the American Group adjourn their meeting?
A Yes sir.
Q What time was that?
A It was near half past eight o'clock.
Q What was the first you heard of the haymarket meeting?
A The first I heard of it was that there would be a meeting at haymarket, some one met me on Madison street during the day and said there would be a meeting there---who it was, I don't know.
Q You say you saw a notice?
A I saw it in the paper, published, a circualr.
Q Published in the paper?
A Yes sir.
Q What paper was that published in?
A I think it was the News.
Q Are you certain it was an English paper?
A There has been a lot of discussion about it.
Q Been a good deal of discussion about the circular---I asked you what you read it in?
A I could not say.
Q You saw it in an English speaking paper?
A I did.
Q Did you see it in the Arbeiter Zeitung?
A I can't read it.
Q What paper was it you saw that in?
A I said I could not be positive whether the Herald or News. I read both
of them.
Q You are positive you did see it?
A I saw it in the paper, a circular, it purported to be the circular distributed the evening before.
Q That is the Revenge Circular published the evening before?
A I don't know what you call it.
Q Did that call any meeting at the hay market?
A It said there would be a meeting.
Q Was that circular headed "Revenge"?
A I could not say whether it was or not.
Q Do you swear you saw in any English paper published in this city a copy of a circular calling a meeting at the haymarket?
A Unless I could see the circular I could not swear to it, but it impressed itself upon my mind that was the meeting it had reference to.
Q Look at that circular. (Shows witness circulr.)
A I am not positive---it strikes me that is not exactly the way the circular read, that I had.
Q Look at this one---is not that the circular that you saw? (shows witness circular)?
A The circular I saw published in the paper?
Q That was published in an English speaking paper?
A Yes sir.
Q That is the notice you saw for the meeting at the Haymarket?
A That is the notice I saw, yes sir.
Q This circular, the Revenge circular, is the notice you saw which told you there would be a meeting at the haymarket?
A Yes sir.
Q You are positive of that---who were the members of that armed group, armed section of the American group?
A I am one of them, and I believe Waldo is another, and a man by the name of Owens another, and I don't know that I can name all of them.
Q Could you name some of the others?
A Yes sir, I could name several others.
Q What others?
A Mr. Parsons was there and Mr. Fielden was there.
Q You know you could name those?
A Yes sir.
Q What others could you name?
A There was a couple there I can't name.
Q Those are all the names you can give?
A I can't give the names of those I don't know.
Q Did you belong to any armed section while in Philadelphia?
A We didn't have any arms---that was not mentioned at that time.
Q Didn't Snyder and Brown belong to the armed section of the American group?
A I don't know that they did.
Q Have not you seen them there, havn't you drilled with them?
Objected to as immaterial; question withdrawn.
Mr. Foster: Q Do you remember whether in addition to those parties you mentioned, whether Mrs. Parsons had children there, whether they were there?
A Yes, they were there.
Q Now, you say that you saw a circular published in an English speaking paper, you remember of reading it?
A Yes sir.
Q You also remember of a man on Madison street telling you of the haymarket meeting?
A He said there would be a meeting that night.
Q As a matter of fact do you now know whether the circular announced the place and time of the meeting, or is it your impression, now, taking it all together, that was a fact---what do you say in regard to that?
A It is my general impression that it did not fix the date of the meeting.
Q That it did not fix the date?
A Yes sir.
Q Did it speak of the meeting?
A Yes sir.
Q You had heard on the street of the haymarket meeting?
A Yes sir.
Q You got your information from what you read and heard on the street. What kind of meeting was it at the Arbeiter building that night. I want to know whether it was a meeting of the armed section or not?
A No sir, it had no relation to that at all. It was only a meeing of the American Group.
Q Have you got your membership card?
A I think the gentleman over here captured it of me when I was taken to the central station.
Q They took you along with the balance of them?
A Yes sir.
Q When was that?
A The week after the riot---I think it was the Saturday after.
Q How long did this group, the International Rifle, or whatever they are, how long did they exist?
A Well, I don't think that we drilled together more than five or six times---I don't think I did, at least.
Q How long did they exist?
A I should say three or four months --I don't know.
Q Three or four months all to gether?
A Yes sir.
Q Did you ever drill with arms?
A I never did, no sir.
Q Did the group you drilled with have any arms?
A No sir, there was never an arm produced in the room.
Q Never was any arms produced?
A No sir.
Mr. Ingham: Q You think now the circular did not contain any reference to the meeting?
A I did not say that, sir. I said I didn't think---it didn't impress on my mind that the date was fixed.