Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct examination by Mr. Zeisler. Cross-examination by Mr. Grinnell. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): eight-hour movement (vol.L 493), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.L 491), Knights of Labor (vol.L 494), time and place origination of the gunfire (vol.L 496), the Arbeiter-Zeitung (vol.L 499).
Testimony of Robert Linginger (first appearance resumed), 1886 Aug. 4.
Volume L, 491-499, 9 p.
Lindinger, Robert.
Cornice-maker; German immigrant.
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[Image, Volume L, Page 491]
ROBERT LINDINGER
RESUMED,
MR. ZEISLER: Q DID YOU SEE ANY REVOLVER THERE WITH ANYBODY
EXCEPT THE POLICE?
A I DID NOT.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY
MR. GRINNELL:
Q YOUR NAME IS LINDINGER?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU STAND IN THE ALLEY ARM IN ARM WITH KARL RICHTER?
A I WAS STANDING THERE UNTIL RAIN COMMENCED.
Q I ASKED YOU HOW MANY MINUTES, HOW LONG, HOURS AND MINUTES DID YOU STAND THERE ARM IN ARM WITH KARL RICHTER?
A WELL, WE STAND THERE WHEN THE MEETING COMMENCED.
Q ANSWER MY QUESTION---ABOUT HOW MANY MINUTES WAS IT?
A I COULDN'T SAY EXACTLY.
Q WAS IT HALF AN HOUR?
A NO SIR, IT WAS MORE, IT WAS PRETTY NEAR TWO HOURS, I BELIEVE.
Q YOU DIDN'T STAND RIGHT THERE IN THE STREET, RIGHT THERE IN THE ALLEY, ARM IN ARM TWO HOURS?
A WE STAND THERE, YES.
Q WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS NOTICE IN THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG?
A IN KARL BOWLE'S SALOOON.
Q WHEN?
A ON MAY 4TH IN THE EVENING AT SIX O'CLOCK.
Q DID YOU GO BACK TO YOUR ROOM AFTER THAT?
A YES, I WENT BACK TO MY ROOM.
Q YOU TOLD PAUL RICHTER WHEN YOU GOT BACK?
A YES.
Q ABOUT GOING OVER TO THE MEETING?
A YES SIR.
Q SOCIALISTIC MEETING?
A I THOUGHT IT WAS SOME OTHER OTHER MEETING---I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF MEETING IT WAS.
Q EIGHT HOUR MEETING?
A IT WAS JUST THAT A GOOD SPEAKER WAS THERE ABOUT THE LABOR QUESTION.
Q GOING OVER TO THE EIGHT HOUR MASS MEETING?
A YES SIR, ABOUT THE LABOR QUESTION.
Q YOU HAVE BEEN IN CHICAGO HOW LONG?
A A YEAR AND A QUARTER I THINK, THREE MONTHS.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN THIS COUNTRY?
A OVER THREE YEAR.
Q WHERE WERE YOU BORN?
A I WAS BORN IN GERMANY.
Q WHEREABOUTS?
A BADEN, FRIEDBERG.
Q HOW OLD ARE YOU?
A TWENTY FOUR.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING IN THE SAME ROOM WITH KARL RICHTER?
A WAS LIVING WITH HIM ON WELLS STREET ALREADY I BELIEVE A YEAR.
Q 91 WELLS STREET?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU LIVED WITH HIM A YEAR THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q AND THEN MOVED OVER TO 53 NORTH CLARK STREET?
A YES SIR, NOT A YEAR THERE, BUT WE LIVED TOGETHER IN THE SAME ROOM.
Q NOT A YEAR?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW LONG AGO?
A IT IS ALTOGETHER A YEAR.
Q BOTH PLACES?
A YES.
Q WHERE DID YOU MAKE HIS ACQUAINTANCE?
A 91, NORTH CLARK STREET.
Q WHAT IS YOUR BUSINESS?
A MY BUSINESS IS CORNICE MAKER.
Q WHERE DO YOU WORK?
A AT CHESAPEAKE AVENUE; BY W. WHITE.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A MEMBER OF THE KNIGHTS OF LABOR?
A I AM A MEMBER FOR OVER TWO YEARS.
Q YOU BECAME A MEMBER WHERE?
A TOLEDO, OHIO.
Q HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE YOU BECAME A MEMBER?
A OVER A YEAR, I BELIEVE.
Q YOU BECAME A MEMBER IN TOLEDO?
A YES SIR.
Q ARE YOU A MEMBER OF ANY OTHER LABOR ORGANISATION?
A NO SIR
Q YOU ARE WITH WHITE, THE CORNICE MAKER?
A YES.
Q HAVE YOU BEEN WITH HIM LONG?
A IT WAS SIX WEEKS BEFORE THE FIRST OF MAY.
Q WHERE DID YOU WORK BEFORE THAT?
A BEFORE I DID NOT WORK.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN TOWN WITHOUT WORK?
A THIS YEAR FOUR MONTHS.
Q WHAT WERE YOU DOING THOSE FOUR MONTHS?
A I WAS LOOKING FOR WORK.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO BEFORE THAT?
A I WAS WORKING IN WELLS STREET.
Q WHERE?
A IN THE CORNICE SHOP OF PAULMAN & CLAUSEN.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU WORK THERE?
A WORKING THERE FROM AUGUST
Q AUGUST LAST YEAR?
A YES.
Q WERE YOU WORKING THERE THREE OR FOUR MONTHS?
A NO, I WAS WORKING IN THE TIN SHOP ON CLARK STREET.
Q WHERE?
A CORNER OF VAN BUREN AND CLARK.
Q SOUTH SIDE?
A YES SIR, HIS NAME IS WOLFF.
Q YOU HAVE KNOWN PAUL RICHTER A YEAR?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU LOST HIM THAT NIGHT IN THE SCRAMBLE?
A YES SIR.
Q THERE WERE A GOOD MANY PEOPLE IN THAT ALLEY THAT NIGHT?
A NOT VERY MANY, THEY CAME IN WHEN WE RUN OFF THERE, CAME IN THERE.
Q BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON WHILE SPEAKING WAS GOING ON WERE THERE MANY PEOPLE?
A NOT VERY MANY.
Q DID YOU STAND WITH YOUR FACE TOWARDS THE SPEAKERS ALL THE TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU MOVED UP TO THE LAMP POST?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU STAND ON THE SIDEWALK NEAR THE LAMP POST?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE A PILE OF BOXES THERE?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DIDN'T NOTICE THEM?
A NO SIR.
Q THE CROWD WAS PRETTY BIG THEN WHEN THE POLICE CAME UP?
A IT WAS NEAR THE SIDEWALK, IT WAS THICK, NOT IN THE ALLEY THOUGH.
Q WHERE DID YOU LOSE PAUL RICHTER?
A I LOST HIM,
Q DIDN'T YOU FALL FROM THE STAIRWAY IN THE BASEMENT?
A NO SIR, I WENT THE OTHER WAY.
Q YOU WENT ROUND RANDOLPH STREET?
A YES SIR, I WENT AROUND ON THE WEST EDGE OF THE EAST SIDE.
Q WAS THERE A GOOD MANY PEOPLE THERE?
A YES SIR, THEY WERE LAYING ON TOP OF ONE ANOTHER.
Q THAT WAS WHEN YOU WERE ALL STRUGGLING AND RUNNING AWAY?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WERE NOT WATCHING CLOSE TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE DOWN OR UP BFORE YOU WENT AWAY?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WERE IN A HURRY TO GET AWAY---THE POLICE FIRED FIRST, DIDN'T THEY ---DID THE POLICE FIRE FIRST?
A AS FAR AS I KNOW.
Q YOU LOOKED AT THEM AND SAW THEN FIRE FIRST?
A YES SIR, I DID.
Q DID THE FRONT RANK FIRE FIRST?
A I DIDN'T SEE THEM.
Q DID YOU SEE THE POLICEMAN FIRE THAT WENT UP TO THE WAGON TO SPEAK TO FIELDEN?
A I SEEN IT IN THAT DIRECTION.
Q WAS IT RIGHT FROM WHERE HE STOOD?
A YES SIR, NOT WHERE HE STOOD---I SEEN IT BEFORE THE WAGON, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE WAGON AND ME.
Q BETWEEN THE WAGON AND YOU?
A YES SIR.
Q THE PISTOL SHOTS WERE FIRED BEFORE FIELDEN GOT THROUGH TALKING?
A NO SIR.
Q HE SAME SOMETHING ABOUT "PEACEABLE"?
A HE MADE SOME REMARK.
Q THE PISTOL SHOTS WERE FIRED BEFORE HE GOT THROUGH THAT TALK?
A NO, I DIDN'T HEAR ANY.
Q WHERE DID THE PISTOL SIDTS COME FROM?
A I SEEN IT BETWEEN THE SPACE, THE WAGON AND ME.
Q WERE THE POLICEMEN BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON?
A THAT WAS AFTER THE WAGON WAS EMPTY ALREADY.
Q WERE THE POLICEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE BESIDES POLICEMEN BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON?
A NO SIR.
Q NOT A SOUL?
A I DON'T BELIEVE AT.
Q NO ONE THERE EXCEPT POLICEMEN?
A I BELIEVE THEY WERE ON THE SIDEWALK, ALL THE PEOPLE.
Q WERE THERE ANY BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON?
A I DIDN'T SEE ANY.
Q I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY THAT THE EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK WAS PRETTY FULL OF PEOPLE?
A I WAS DOWN FURTHER THAT TIME WHEN I SAW THEY STOOD AGAINST THE WAGON.
Q WAS THERE ANY PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK BETWEEN YOU AND THE WAGON WHEN YOU SAW THE POLICEMEN?
A I SEEN THE POLICEMEN COME UP, AND THEN I SEEN THEN STANDING IN THE STREET, AND THEN I WAS ABOUT TEN OR FIFTEEN FEET I SUPPOSE BACK FROM THE LANTERN TO RANDOLPH STREET---THAT WAS THE SIDE I HAD TO SEE BACK TO THE WAGON.
Q WERE THERE ANY PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK WHEN YOU HEARD FIELDEN SAY SOMETHING ABOUT "PEACEABLE"---WAS THERE ANY PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALK BETWEEN WHERE YOU STOOD, BY THE WAGON?
A THEY WERE MOVING.
Q I ASK YOU IF THERE WERE ANY PEOPLE THERE?
A THERE WAS ASS MUCH AS BEFORE.
Q COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THEY SHOT OR WHETHER THE POLICEMEN SHOT FROM WHERE YOU STOOD?
A I DIDN'T SEE NO ONE SHOOT ON MY SIDE.
Q WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO 53 NORTH CLARK STREET, YOU FOUND KARL RICHTER THERE?
A NO SIR, I WAS THERE FIRST.
Q WHEN HE COME YOU BEGAN TO TALK OVER WHAT YOU HAD HEARD?
A NO, WE WERE NOT TALKING VERY MUCH ABOUT IT.
Q YOU READ A GOOD DEAL ABOUT IT THE NEXT DAY?
A WE ONLY WERE TALKING HOW WE CAME AWAY FROM THAT PLACE.
Q DID YOU COMPARE NOTES TO SEE WHAT DIRECTION YOU CAME, AND WHAT DIRECTION ME CAME?
A YES.
Q DID YOU TALK ABOUT THE CASE ANY, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE SHOOTING---DID YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?
A YES, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SHOOTING.
Q AND TALKED ABOUT IT THAT NIGHT?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU READ ABOUT IT THE NEXT DAY?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU TALKED ABOUT IT THEN SOME?
A YES.
Q WHAT PAPER DID YOU READ IT IN THE NEXT DAY?
A THE NEWS.
Q THE DAILY NEWS?
A YES.
Q DID YOU READ IT IN ANY OTHER PAPERS?
A NO SIR, ONLY READ THE NEWS.
Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY OTHER COPY OF THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG EXCEPT THAT ONE OF MAY 4TH?
A YES SIR, I SEEN SOME.
Q WHERE DID YOU SEE THEN?
A KARL RICHTER GOT THEM--- HE WAS SUBSCRIBER OF THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG.
Q HE WAS SUBSCRIBER BEFORE THIS?
A HE WAS BEFORE, YES.
Q YOU SEEN THAT PAPER SOME TIME AND HAD BEEN READING IT SOME TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG HAS CARL BEEN A SUBSCRIBER TO THAT PAPER?
A IT MUST BE A YEAR NOW; BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE IT ALWAYS, YOU KNOW.
MR. FOSTER: Q Mr. Grinnell asked you whether YOU STOOD ARM IN ARM WITH KARL RICHTER FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF OR TWO HOURS, AND YOU ANSWERED, YES, I THINK IT WAS TWO HOURS WE STOOD THERE---DO YOU MEAN THIS JURY TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU STOOD ARM IN ARM DURING THE WHOLE MEETING?
A NOT DURING THE WHOLE MEETING, WHEN THAT RAIN COMMENCED HE STOOD ON THE LANTERN POST---HE WAS TIRED, AND I STOOD IN FRONT OF HIM.
Q DID HE HAVE HOLD OF YOUR ARM?
A HE HAD HOLD OF MY ARM.
Q AND CONTINUED TO HAVE HOLD OF YOUR ARM UNTIL THE STORM CAME UP?
A YES.
Q YOU SAY HE WAS TIRED?
A YES SIR.
Q THEN HE WENT AND LET GO OF YOUR ARM AND LEANED ON THE POST?
A YES SIR.