Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct and re-direct examination by Mr. Foster. Cross-examination by Mr. Grinnell. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al. Stood in Crane's Alley during the Haymarket meeting. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Parsons, Albert (vol.L 413), Fielden, Samuel (vol.L 413), eight-hour movement (vol.L 431), learned about the Haymarket meeting by verbal notice (vol.L 414), trajectory of the bomb (vol.L 416), Spies, August (vol.L 420), time and place origination of the gunfire (vol.L 416), the Arbeiter-Zeitung (vol.L 469), Parsons' speech at Haymarket (vol.L 441), street lights and/or lights on the wagon (vol.L 420), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.L 443).
Testimony of August Krumm, 1886 Aug. 4.
Volume L, 412-482, 71 p.
Krumm, August.
Employee, Kimball's Organ Factory.
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[Image, Volume L, Page 412]
AUGUST KRUMM,
A WITNESS CALIED AND SWORN ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS, WAS EXAMINED IN CHIEF BY MR. FOSTER, AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
Q WHAT IS YOUR NAME?
A AUGUST KRUMM.
Q WHERE DO YOU RESIDE?
A 1036 WEST
Q WHAT IS YOUR BUSINESS?
A WOOD WORK AND MACHINERY.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CHICAGO?
Q TWENTY-TWO YEARS.
Q ARE YOU A MARRIED MAN?
A YES SIR.
Q LIVE WITH YOUR FAMILY AT THIS PLACE?
A NO SIR, I AM BOARDING.
Q YOU BOARD WITH YOUR FAMILY THEN?
A I AM BOARDING BY A WIDOW WOMAN.
Q ARE YOU A SOCIALIST?
A NO SIR.
Q AN ANARCHIST?
A NO SIR.
Q A COMMUNIST?
A NO SIR.
Q ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH ANY OF THE DEFENDANTS HERE ON TRIAL?
A I DON'T KNOW IF I EVER SEEN THEM--- I DON'T KNOW ONE OF THEM?
Q YOU ARE NOT ACQUAINTED WITH ANY OF THEM?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY OF THEM AT THE HAYMARKET MEETING THAT YOU NOW REMEMBER?
A I THINK WHEN I COME THERE I SEEN THAT MAN RIGHT THERE.
Q MR. PARSONS, THIS SMALL MAN?
A YES, I THINK IT WAS HIM.
Q YOU THINK YOU SAW HIM THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE THIS MAN WITH THE FULL BEARD INDICATING?
A YES, I THINK I SEEN HIM SPEAKING LAST.
Q ASIDE FROM HEARING THEM AND SEEING THEM SPEAK AT THE HAYMARKET, DID YOU HAVE ANY ACQUAINTANCE WITH ANY OF THEM?
A NO SIR.
Q NEVER BEFORE THAT TIME?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU ATTENDED THE HAYMARKET MEETING ON THE 4TH OF MAY LAST?
A I WAS THERE--- I COME THERE WHEN THEY STARTED TO SPEAK.
Q WHAT TIME IN THE EVENING WAS IT THAT YOU CAME THERE?
A I GUESS IT WAS ABOUT A QUARTER TO NINE.
Q THE MEETING WAS GOING ON WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW DID YOU COME TO GO THERE?
A I HAD BUSINESS DOWN TOWN, AND THEN I HEARD ABOUT THAT MEETING AND STOPPED AND LISTENED TO IT.
Q HAD YOU SEEN ANY NEWSPAPER NOTICE OR CIRCULARS?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU HAVE SEEN NOTHING IN PRINT TELLING YOU THERE WAS TO BE A MEETING THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q WAS ANY ONE WITH YOU?
A I MET A FRIEND OF MINE THERE.
Q WHAT WAS YOUR FRIEND'S NAME?
A WILLIAM ALBRIGHT.
Q DID MR. ALBRIGHT WORK IN THE SAME PLACE YOU DID?
A YES SIR.
Q HE WORKS THERE NOW?
A YES.
Q WHERE DO YOU WORK?
A IN KIMBALLS WAGON FACTORY.
Q MR. ALBRIGHT ALSO WORKS FOR MR. KIMBALL IN THE WAGON FACTORY?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED FOR MR. KIMBALL?
A I THINK IT MUST BE SOMEWHERES AROUND THREE YEARS.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER WHERE THE ALLEY WAS WHICH WE WILL CALL CRANES ALLEY CLOSE TO WHERE THE WAGON STOOD FROM WHICH THE SPEAKERS SPOKE THAT NIGHT, DO YOU?
A YES, I DO.
Q NOW WITH REFERENCE TO THAT ALLEY AND THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING NORTH OF THE ALLEY, WHERE DID YOU AND MR. ALBRIGHT STAND?
A STOOD RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF THE ALLEY, AT CRANES FACTORY.
Q HOW NEAR TO THE FACTORY, HOW NEAR TO THE BRICK WALL?
A CLOSE TO THE BRICK WALL, RIGHT NEAR TO THE BRICK WALL.
Q RIGHT AT THE CORNER, IF I UNDERSTAND YOU?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU REMAIN THERE ANY LENGHT OF TIME?
A I STOOD THERE ALL THE EVENING.
Q ALL THE EVENING FROM QUARTER BEFORE NINE?
A YES SIR.
Q I WILL, ASK YOU WHETHER AT ANY TIME YOU AND MR. ALBRIGHT LEFT THE CORNER FOR A SHORT TIME, AND IF SO WHEN WAS THAT?
A WE WENT BACK A LITTLE WAYS IN THE ALLEY, ANDD LIT MY PIPE. HE GAVE ME A PIPE OF TOBACCO, AND LIT THE MATCH AND BOTH OF US HAD FIRE FROM THAT MATCH, A COUPLE OF STEPS BACK IN THE ALLEY MAY BE.
Q AFTER YOU HAD GONE INTO YOUR ALLEY AND LIT YOUR PIPES AND CAME TO THE CORNER AGAIN, WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A SEEN THE POLICE COMING UP.
Q WHERE WERE THE POLICE WHEN YOU CAME TO THE CORNER?
A THE POLICE STOPPED RIGHT THERE, AND ONE MAN I SEEN WALKING UP TO THE WAGON.
Q YOU SAW AS YOU STOOD THERE, ONE MAN WALKING TO THE WAGON WHEN YOU FIRST SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON AFTER LIGHTING YOUR PIPE IN THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG WAS IT AFTER THAT BEFORE YOU HEARD A NOISE?
A IT WAS RIGHT SHORTLY AFTER. I HEARD A SHOT FIRED FIRST.
Q FROM WHAT PLACE WAS THE SHOT FIRED?
A THAT SHOT CAME RIGHT FROM WHERE THE POLICE STOOD, UP FROM THE SOUTH?
Q FROM THE DIRECTION OF THE POLICE?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG WAS IT AFTER YOU HEARD THAT REPORT BEFORE THE BOMB EXPLODED?
A THAT BOMB EXPLODED RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST SHOT WAS FIRED.
Q HOW SOON AFTER?
A SHORTLY AFTER.
Q YOU MEAN IMMEDIATELY?
A NOT AT THE SAME TIME, BUT SHORTLY AFTER THE FIRST SHOT WAS FIRED.
Q YOU THINK YOU HEARD A PISTOL SHOT, AND THEN THE BOMB RIGHT AWAY?
A YES SIR.
Q AND THAT THE SHOT CAME FROM THE DIRECTION OF THE POLICE?
A YES.
Q WAS THERE ANY SHOT FIRED FROM THE WAGON ON THAT OCCASION?
A I DIDN'T SEE ANY SHOT FIRED FROM THE WAGON.
Q I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER AT THE TIME YOU WERE AT THE CORNER, OR WHILE YOU WERE IN THE ALLEY LIGHTING YOUR PIPES, YOU SAW ANY ONE GO FROM THE WACON OR FROM THE NORTH, OR ANY PLACE AND ENTER THE ALLEY?
A I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY.
Q I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER YOU SAW ANY NUMBER OF MEN OR GROUP OF MEN IN THE ALLEY AT THE ALLEY AT THE TIME YOU WERE THERE LIGHTING YOU PIPE?
A THERE WERE A FEW MEN IN THERE, BUT THEY WERE STANDING RIGHT ALONG SIDE OF US.
Q ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE A GROUP OF MEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ALLEY, EIGHT OR TEN FEET FROM THE SIDEWALK?
A I COULDN'T TELL---I DIDN'T TAKE NOTICE OF THEM.
Q IN REGARD TO THE PIPE, DO YOU SAY THAT MR. ALBRIGHT GAVE YOU A PIPE FULL OF TOBACCO?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU HAVE A PIPE?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU HAD A PIPE?
A YES SIR.
Q HE GAVE YOU A PIPE FULL OF TOBACCO?
A YES SIR.
Q WHY DID YOU WITHDRAW TO THE ALLEY TO LIGHT YOUR PIPES?
A THERE WAS A KIND OF A DRAFT ON THE SIDEWALK, AND WE STEPPED BACK INTO THE ALLEY.
Q HOW FAR BACK INTO THE ALLEY DID YOU STEP WHEN YOU LIT YOUR PIPES?
A WE WERE A COUPLE OF STEPS BACK---I DON'T EXACTLY REMEMBER HOW FAR, BUT A COUPLE OF STEPS BACK.
Q WHICH SIDE OF THE ALLEY, NORTH OR SOUTH?
A NORTH. WE STOOD RIGHT ALONG SIDE OF CRANE'S SHOP, AND LIT OUR PIPES.
Q HOW MANY MATCHES DID YOU USE IN LIGHTING THE TWO PIPES?
A ONE.
Q WHO STRUCK THE MATCH-?
A I DID.
Q WHOSE PIPE WAS LIGHTED FIRST?
A MINE.
Q THEN HOW DID YOU LIGHT ALBRIGHT'S PIPE, WITH THE SAME MATCH?
A HE CAME UP TO ME AND I HELD THE LIGHT, AND HE STUCK HIS PIPE IN THERE.
Q YOU STRUCK THE MATCH AND LIGHTED YOUR PIPE, AND THEN AS HE HELD HIS HAND AROUND AND STUCK HIS PIPE OUT YOU PUT THE FIRE UPON IT?
A PUT THE FIRE INTO THE PIPE.
Q THEN YOU TURNED AROUND AND CAME TO THE CORNER?
A STOOD IN THE CORNER AND STAYED THERE.
Q THE POLICE WERE THERE?
A THEY COME THERE.
Q I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER, ABOUT THE TIME THAT BOMB EXPLODED OR JUST BEFORE THE BOMB EXPLODED, YOU SAW ANY INDICATION OF FIRE AT ANY PART OF THE AUDIENCE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE WAS IT?
A IT WAS ABOUT TWENTY FEET SOUTH ON DESPLAINES STREET.
Q JUST EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU SAW?
A SOMETHING LIKE A BURNT OUT MATCH THAT WAS LIT YET, AND KIND OF DROPPED DOWN THAT WAY.
Q HOW FAR OUT DID IT GO?
A IT MUST HAVE DROPPED OUT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET-- NOT QUITE.
Q WHERE WAS IT WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT?
A I WAS STANDING RIGHT AT THE BUILDING, SAME CORNER OF THE ALLEY.
Q WHERE WAS THIS FIRE AS NEAR AS YOU CAN JUDGE?
A IT WAS ABOUT TEN FOOT UP WHEN I SEEN IT, TEN OR TWELVE.
Q YOU ASSUME THAT IT MUST HAVE STARTED FRIN TWENTY FEET SOUTH OF THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q COULD IT HAVE STARTED FROM THE MOUTH OF THE ALLEY?
A NO SIR.
Q WHICH DIRECTION DID IT GO?
A IT WENT OVER THAT WAY FROM EAST DOWN THAT WAY.
Q TOWARDS THE WEST?
A TOWARDS THE WEST, YES SIR.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WENT STRAIGHT WEST OR WHETHER IT WENT NORTH WEST?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q YOU SIMPLY SAW THE STREAK OF FIRE?
A YES SIR, AND RIGHT AFTER, THE EXPLOSION.
Q FROM THE TIME THE CAPTAIN OR OFFICER WENT UP TO SPEAK TO THE SPEAKER TO THE TIME YOU SAW THE FIRE CIRCLING OVER TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, DID YOU SEE ANY ONE STRIKE A MATCH IN THE ALLEY, OR KNOW OF ANY LIGHT BEING IN THE ALLEY, OR ANY ONE STRIKING A LIGHT IN THE ALLEY EXCEPT THE MATCH YOU STRUCK?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU SAW NO LIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q WAS IT LIGHT OR DARK THERE?
A IN THE ALLEY?
Q YES, ALL ABOUT THERE?
A IT WAS A KIND OF SHOWER COME UP, A DARK SHOWER.
Q WAS IT LIGHT OR DARK?
A IT WAS DARK.
Q NOW, I WILL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT MR. SPIES, THIS LIGHT COMPLEXIONED MAN HERE---DID YOU SEE HIM GO INTO THE ALLEY AT ANY TIME
THAT EVENING?
A NO SIR.
Q AND AT OR ABOUT THAT TIME OF THE EXPLOSION OF THE BOMB OR A SHORT TIME BEFORE YOU NEITHER SAW HIM OR ANYBODY ELSE ENTER THE ALLEY?
A NO SIR.
Q I WILL ASK YOU AT THE TIME YOU WERE STANDING BY THE BUILDING, THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING, CRANE'S ALLEY, WHETHER THERE WAS ROOM FOR A MAN TO PASS BEHIND YOU TO GO INTO THE ALLEY?
A NO SIR, WE STOOD RIGHT CLOSE TO THE BUILDING.
Q RIGHT AGAINST THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q SO THAT IF ANY ONE WOULD HAVE GONE FROM THE WAGON TO THE ALLEY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO IN FRONT OF YOU?
A IN FRONT OF ME.
Q YOU SAW NO PERSON IN THAT DIRECTION?
A NO SIR.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRINNELL.
Q HOW OLD ARE YOU
A THIRTY-SEVEN.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN THIS COUNTRY?
A TWENTY-TWO YEARS.
Q WHERE WERE YOU BORN?
A IN GERMANY.
WHERE IN GERMANY?
A PRUSSIA.
Q WHAT PLACE IN PRUSSIA?
A DEMAIN:
Q WHERE DID YOU LAND FIRST IN THIS COUNTRY?
A NEW YORK.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN CHICAGO?
A BEEN IN CHICAGO EVER SINCE,
Q YOU SAW YOU ARE BOARDING WITH SOMEBODY AT 1O36 WEST TWENTIETH STREET?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE IS YOUR FAMILY?
A LIVING OVER ON THE NORTH SIDE.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN BOARDING AT IO36 WEST 20TH STREET?
A OVER A YEAR.
Q HAVE YOUR FAMILY LIVED ON THE NORTH SIDE DURING THAT TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DOES YOUR FAMILY LIVE, AND YOUR WIFE LIVE?
A I COULDN'T SAY WHETHER SHE IS LIVING ON THE NORTH SIDE.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE LIVES?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW LONG SINCE YOU HAVE SEEN HER?
A OVER A YEAR.
Q HAVE YOU GOT ANY CHILDREN?
A YES SIR.
Q HAS SHE GOT THEM?
A SHE HAS GOT ONE.
Q YOU GOT ONE?
A NO SIR.
Q IS THE CHILD WITH THE MOTHER?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU HAVEN'T SEEN EITHER THE MOTHER OR THE CHILD FOR OVER A YEAR?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING FOR KIMBALL?
A SOMETHING AROUND THREE YEARS.
Q WHAT DEPARTMENT DO YOU WORK IN?
A WORKING AT THE SAW DOWN STAIRS.
QQ YOU HAVE BEEN BOARDING A YEAR AT 1O36 WEST TWENTIETH?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DID YOU LIVE BEFORE THAT?
A I LIVED OVER ON SEDGWICK AND STAR STREETS.
Q DID YOUR WIFE LIVE WITH YOU THEN?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DID YOU LIVE NEAR SEDGWICK AND STAR STREET---WHAT STREET DID YOU LIVE ON AND WHAT NUMBER?
A NO, 11 STAR STREET.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE THERE?
A SOMEWHERS AROUND A YEAR.
Q BEFORE THAT WHERE DID YOU LIVE?
A I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE I LIVED.
WHERE DID YOU LIVE BEFORE THAT?
A I LIVED OVER ON SEDGWICK STREET.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU SAY YOU HAD BEEN IN CHICAGO?
A A TWENTY-TWO YEARS.
Q YOU CAME DIRCTLY FROM NEW YORK HERE?
A YES SIR, OVER THE OCEAN.
Q WHEN YOU LANDED?
A YES SIR.
Q WERE YOU MARRIED IN THIS COUNTRY OR THE OLD COUNTRY?
A IN THIS COUNTRY.
Q HOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU BEEN MARRIED?
A SOMEWHERES OVER TWELVE, I GUESS.
Q WHERE IS 1O36 WEST TWENTIETH STREET---NEAR WHAT CROSS STREET ---HOW FAR WEST?
A TWO BLOCKS ON THIS SIDE OF WESTERN AVENUE.
Q TWO BLOCKS EAST OF WESTERN AVENUE?
A ON THIS SIDE OF WESTERN AVENUE.
Q THAT WOULD BE EAST OF WESTERN AVENUE?
A YES.
Q WHERE IS THAT WITH REFERENCE TO HINMAN STREET STATION--- HOW FAR FROM HINMAN STREET STATION?
A SIX BLOCKS, I GUESS.
Q WEST?
A NO, SOUTH.
Q SIX BLOCKS SOUTH?
A SOUTH.
Q AND WEST?
A WELL, THE HINMAN STREET STATION IS EAST FROM WHERE I LIVE.
Q WHAT WERE YOU DOING ON MAY 4TH.
A I WAS WALKING ON RANDOLPH STREET.
Q ALL DAY YOU WERE WALKING UP RANDOLPH STREET?
A NO, I WORKED ALL DAY.
Q WHERE DID YOU WORK THAT DAY?
A IN MY OLD SHOP.
Q WHERE IS THE SHOP?
A THE SHOP IS RIGHT NEAR THE BRIDEWELL THERE, KIMBALLS ORGAN FACTORY.
Q WHERE?
A RIGHT NEAR THE BRIDEWELL---I DON'T KNOW THE NAMES OF THE STREETS.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING THERE?
A SOMEWHERES AROUND THREE YEARS.
Q NEAR NEAR WHAT PLACE IS IT?
A NEAR THE IRON WORKS.
Q WHERE IS THAT?
A ON THE BLACK ROAD.
Q THAT WAS THE 4TH, TUESDAY, YOU WORKED ALL DAY THAT DAY DID, YOU, TUESDAY, MAY 4TH?
A YES SIR, I WORKED ALL DAY.
Q AT THIS FACTORY YOU SPEAK OF?
A YES SIR.
Q KIMBALL'S ORGAN FACTORY DOWN NEAR THE BLACK ROAD?
A YES SIR.
Q ON WHAT STREET IS KIMBALLS ORGAN FACTORY, ON 20TH OR 22ND?
IT IS A BLOCK OFF THE BLACK ROAD.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE MC.CORMICK'S FACTORY IS?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW FAR FROM MC.CORMICK'S FACTORY?
A TWO OR THREE BLOCK.
Q NORTH?
A NO SIR, WEST.
Q ON THE SAME STREET THAT MC.CORMICK'S FACTORY IS ON?
A YES SIR.
Q TWO OR THREE STREETS WEST?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WORKED THERE ALL DAY TUESDAY, MAY 4TH?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GOT TO WORK?
A SEVEN O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING ---EIGHT O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. ---WE WORKED EIGHT HOURS THAT TIME.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU QUIT WORK?
A QUARTER TO FIVE.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO TO THEN?
A WENT HOME AND HAD MY SUPPER.
Q WITH WHOM DID YOU LIVE---WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FAMILY YOU BOARDED WITH?
A YANKIRK.
Q DID THIS ALBRIGHT BOARD THERE TOO?
A NO SIR.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET HOME THAT NIGHT?
A I GOT HOME ABOUT HALF PAST TEN.
Q I MEAN AFTER YOU QUIT WORK?
A I WENT RIGHT HOME.
Q HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET HOME. YOU SAY YOU QUIT WORK---WAS IT FIFTEEN MINUTES OF FIVE WHEN YOU QUIT WORK?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WENT STRAIGHT HOME?
A I DID.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE?
A I GOT HOME ABOUT QUARTER PAST FIVE.
Q DID YOU STAY THERE ANY LENGHT OR TIME?
A I STAYED THERE AND HAD MY SUPPER AND SAT DOWN A WHILE AND SMOKED MY PIPE.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU STAY THERE?
A THEN I WENT UP.
Q DID YOU READ ANY PAPERS?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU WENT DOWN TOWN THEN DID YOU?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT DIRECTION DID YOU GO TO GET DOWN TOWN?
A I COME DOWN BLUE ISLAND AVENUE AND WENT UP HALSTED.
Q WHERE DID YOU STRIKE BLUE ISLAND AVENUE---HOW FAR IS THE PLACE YOU STRUCK BLUE ISLAND AVENUE FROM I036 20TH STREET?
A I WENT DOWN 21ST STREET UP TO BLUE ISLAND AVENUE.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE?
A I COULDN'T TELL EXACTLY.
Q ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT?
A IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE AFTER EIGHT.
Q DID YOU GET A BLUE ISLAND AVENUE CAR?
A I WALKED DOWN.
Q WALKED CLEAR DOWN TOWN?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU WALK DOWN TOWN ALONE?
A YES, SIR.
Q WHERE DID YOU STOP FIRST ---DID YOU STOP SOMEWHERE?
A YES SIR, STOPPED ON THE CORNER OF DESPLAINES AND RANDOLPH.
Q HOW DID YOU COME TO STOP THERE?
A I WENT IN AND HAD A GLASS OF BEER.
Q DESPLAINES AND RANDOLPH?
A YES SIR, DESPLAINES, THAT IS RIGHT.
Q WHEN YOU GOT THERE YOU LEFT ABOUT EIGHT O'CLOCK YOU SAY?
A YES SIR.
Q THAT IS YOU GOT TO BLUE ISLAND AND 21ST ABOUT EIGHT O'CLOCK IN THE EVENING?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WALKED ON BLUE ISLAND AVENUE NORTH, TOWARDS THE CENTER OF
THE CITY?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU GOT TO DESPLAINES AND RANDOLPH STREET AT WHAT HOUR, WHAT HOUR DID YOU GET THERE?
A IT MIGHT BE ABOUT TWENTY MINUTES TO NINE, SOMEWHERES ABOUT THAT.
Q HAD YOU BEEN IN YOUR SALOON TO GET YOUR DRINK YOURSELF?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE ALBRIGHT BEFORE YOU WENT INTO THE SALOON?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM WHEN YOU GOT INTO THE SALOON?
A NO SIR.
Q WHAT SALOON DID YOU GO INTO?
A I DON'T KNOW THE NAME.
Q RIGHT ON THE CORNER?
A YES SIR.
Q RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF DESPLAINES AND RANDOBPH STREETS?
A YES.
Q WHICH CORNER?
A THE SOUTHEAST CORNER. I WENT IN THERE AND GOT A GLASS OF BEER.
Q HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE?
A I TOOK MY BEER AND WALKED OUT.
Q I UNDERSTAND YOU WENT DOWN TO DO SOME BUSINESS?
A I TOOK A WALK UP RANDOLPH STREET.
Q WHICH WAY DID YOU GO FROM THE SALOON?
A TOWARDS THE LAKE.
Q THAT IS TOWARDS THE RIVER?
A YES SIR.
Q AFTER YOU GOT YOUR GLASS OF BEER?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW FAR DID YOU WALK?
A WALKED UP AS FAR AS CANAL STREET.
Q DID YOU SEE ALBRIGHT IN THE MEANTIME?
A NO SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO CANAL STREET DIDN'T YOU SEE ALBRIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO CANAL STREET, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I TURNED AROUND AND WENT TO THE MEETING. I WANTED TO SEE A FRIEND, AND DID NOT MEET HIM, AND THEN I TURNED AROUND AND WENT TO THE MEETING.
Q DID YOU COME BACK TO RANDOLPH STREET?
A YES SIR.
Q ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET YOU WENT UP ON?
A YES SIR.
Q WHICH SIDE WAS THAT?
A THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE STREET.
Q YOU TURNED RIGHT AROUND WHEN YOU GOT TO CANAL STREET TURNED RIGHT AROUND AND CAME TO THE CORNER OF DESPLAINES?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU KNOW BEFORE YOU GOT THERE AND DRANK YOUR GLASS OF BEER THAT THERE WAS ANY MEETING AT THE CORNER?
A I SEEN THE CROWD.
Q DID YOU KNOW BEFORE YOU GOT THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU SAW THE CROWD THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE A MEETING?
A WHEN I SEEN THE CROWD THERE.
Q IS THAT ONLY REASON YOU KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE A MEETING WHEN YOU SAW A CROWD?
A I HEARD SOME MAN SPEAKING, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A MEETING ABOUT THE EIGHT HOUR MEETING.
Q YOU DID HEAR IT BEFORE YOU GOT THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
A NO SIR.
Q WHO WAS THE FRIEND YOU WERE HUNTING FOR?
A SOME FRIEND OF MINE.
Q WHAT WAS HIS NAME?
A ADOLPH WINNIS.
Q WHERE DOES HE LIVE?
A I DON'T KNOW, I COULDN'T TELL YOU. I DIDN'T SEE HIM.
Q WHERE DID YOU SEE HIM LAST BEFORE THAT NIGHT?
A HE COME UP TO THE SHOP TO SEE ME.
Q WHAT TIME OF THE DAY?
A IT WAS IN THE AFTERNOON AROUND THREE O'CLOCK, I GUESS.
Q DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS GOING TO BE AT THE MEETING?
A NO SIR.
Q DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WAS GOING TO BE?
A HE TOLD ME I COULD MEET HIM THERE SOMETIME? A.
Q WHERE?
A ON RANDOLPH AND CANAL STREETS.
Q AT THAT SALOON?
A I WAS NOT IN THE SALOON.
Q DID YOU GO INTO ANY PLACE AT RANDOLPH AND CANAL?
A NO SIR.
Q DID HE TELL YOU TO MEET HIM ON THE STREET?
A YES, THERE IS WHERE HE TOLD ME I COULD MEET HIM.
Q AT WHAT HOUR DID HE SAY YOU COULD MEET HIM THERE?
A ANY HOUR OF THE NIGHT.
Q DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT HE STAYED THERE ALL NIGHT?
A I COME DOWN THERE.
Q DID YOU GET THE IDEA FROM HIM THAT HE STAYED AROUND THAT CORNER ALL NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU GET THE IDEA FROM HIM THAT YOU COULD FIND HIM THERE AT ANY HOUR YOU PLEASED THAT NIGHT?
A HE STAND AROUND THERE.
Q WHAT IS HIS BUSINESS?
A HE IS WORKING AT WOOD WORK MACHINERY.
Q WHERE?
A I DON'T KNOW--- I COULD NOT TELL YOU.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE HE LIVES EITHER?
A NO SIR, NOT NOW.
Q DID YOU KNOW THEN?
A HE SAID HE WAS MOVING.
Q. WHERE?
A ON MADISON STREET SOMEWHERE.
Q DID YOU GO TO HIS ROOM ON MADISON STREET?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU WENT TO THIS PLACE ON RANDOLPH STREET?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WENT THERE AND LOOKED AROUND ON THE STREET AND DID NOT SEE HIM STANDING THERE AND TURNED AROUND AND COME BACK---IS THAT IT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM AT ALL THAT NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM AT THE MEETING?
A NO SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND DESPALINES STREET, WHAT TIME WAS IT YOU GOT THERE THE SECOND TIME.
A IT MUST HAVE BEEN A QUARTER TO NINE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q YOU WERE THEN ONLY FIVE MINUTES FROM THE TIME YOU COME THERE AT THE SALOON, YOU SAY IT WAS TWENTY MINUTES TO NINE WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE SALOON?
A YES.
Q YOU GOT YOUR GLASS OF BEER AND WALKED FROM THERE TO CANAL
STREET AND LOOKED AROUND ON THE STREET AND COME BACK AND DID ALL OF THAT IN FIVE MINUTES?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU GOT BACK AT 8:45---DID YOU SEE A CLOCK OR WATCH FROM THE TIME YOU LEFT YOUR PLACE?
A NO SIR, JUST MY JUDGMENT.
Q HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS EIGHT O'CLOCK WHEN YOU GOT TO BLUE ISLAND AVENUE AND 2IST STREET?
A I LOOKED IN THE SALOON THERE AND SEEN A CLOCK.
Q YOU DID SEE A CLOCK THERE?
A YES, SIR.
Q YOU DID GET A GLASS OF BEER THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q THEN YOU WALKED DOWN TOWN?
A YES SIR.
Q WALKED ALL THE WAY ALONE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE CORNER OF DESPLAINES AND RANDOLPH THERE---DID YOU GO NORTH?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS THE MEETING BEGUN?
A YES SIR.
Q WHO WAS SPEAKING WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE?
A I DID NOT NOTICE.
Q DID YOU HEA ANYBODY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS PARSONS.
Q PARSONS WAS SPEAKING?
A YES SIR.
Q SOMEBODY TOLD YOU THERE WAS TO BE SPEAKING WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q AND PARSONS WAS SPEAKING?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT WAS HE TALKING ABOUT?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT.
MR. FOSTER: I OBJECT TO THAT AS NOT PROPER CROSS EXAMINATION WE DON'T SEEK TO SHOW A SPEECH BY THE WITNESS.
THE COURT: I SUPPOSE THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ALL THAT HE REMEMBERS OF THAT MEETING.
MR. FOSTER: IN OTHER WORDS ON CROSS EXAMINATION, WHERE WE SHOW HE WAS PRESENT AND HEARD A SPEECH, THEY ON CROSS EXAMINATION CAN PROVE WHAT THAT SPEECH WAS. NOW, IF YOUR HONOR PLEASE, I WANT YOUR HONOR TO REMEMBER THE POSITION OF YOUR HONOR PRESENTLY, WE WILL WANT TO INTRODUCE SOME EVIDENCE ON YOUR HONOR'S THEORY, TO WHICH THE GENTLEMEN WILL OBJECT. I WANT THE COURT TO REMEMBER THAT THAT IS THE RULING OF THE COURT.
THE COURT: YES SIR.
DEFENDANTS' COUNSEL THEN AND THERE EXCEPTED TO THE RULING OF THE COURT.
MR. GRINNELL: Q WHERE DID YOU SEE ALBRIGHT FIRST?
A MET HIM RIGHT AT THAT CORNER OF THE ALLEY.
Q HE WAS STANDING THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WENT UP AND SPOKE WITH HIM?
A YES SIR.
Q THAT WAS NORTH OF THE ALLEY?
A NORTHEAST OF THE ALLEY.
Q IT WAS NORTH OF THE ALLEY AND NEAR THE BUILDING?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU STANDUP LEANING AGAINST THE WALL OF THE BUILDING--DID YOU AND ALBRIGHT LEAN UP AGAINST THE WALL THERE?
A WE DID SOMETIME.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU STAND THERE, TAKE IT ALL TOGETHER FROM THE time YOU BEGAN TO LIGHT YOUR PIPE AND GOT THROUGH WITH IT AND CAME BACK AGAIN---HOW LONG DID YOU STAND THERE ALL TOGETHER?
A WE STOOD THERE UNTIL THE MEETING WAS OUT.
Q HOW MANY MINUTES OR HOURS?
A I COULDN'T TELL.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET THERE?, WHAT TIME DID YOU GET TO THE CORNER OF THE ALLEY?
A ABOUT A QUARTER TO NINE.
Q YOU FOUND ALBRIGHT STANDING THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS HE SMOKING WHEN YOU GOT TO HIM?
A NO SIR.
Q DIDN'T HAVE ANY PIPE IN HIS MOUTH?
A NO SIR.
Q DIDN'T HAVE ANY CIGAR IN HIS MOUTH?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU STAND NEXT TO THE ALLEY OR DID ALBRIGHT STAND NEXT TO THE ALLEY?
A WE BOTH STOOD AT THE ALLEY.
Q DID YOU STAND ONE IN FRONT OF THE OTHER?
A NO SIR, WE HAD OUR BACKS TO THE BUILDING.
Q WHICH STOOD NEXT TO THE ALLEY?
A WHICH WAY YOU MEAN, IN THE ALLEY OR OUT.
Q YOU WERE STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK, WEREN'T YOU, BOTH OF YOU?
A NO SIR, WE WERE STANDING IN THE ALLEY.
Q WERE YOU STANDING IN THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q AROUND ON THE EDGE OF THE ALLEY?
A JUST AT THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING.
Q DID BOTH OF YOU LEAN UP AGAINST THE WALL?
A YES SIR:
Q WHICH WAY WERE YOUR FACES WHEN YOU LEANED UP AGAINST THE WALL?
A TO THE SOUTH.
Q YOU FACED THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ALLWY THEN?
A YES SIR.
Q THEN YOU WERE NOT ON THE SIDEWALK AT ALL?
A NO WE WERE NOT ON THE SIDEWALK.
Q YOU WERE IN THE ALLEY?
A IN THE ALLEY.
Q RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER?
A YES SIR.
Q I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY A MOMENT AGO THAT THE REASON YOU STEPPED AROUND INTO THE ALLEY WAS TO LIGHT YOUR PIPE?
A WE WALKED A COUPLE OF STEPS INTO THE ALLEY.
Q FROM THE CORNER?
A FROM THE CORNER, YES SIR.
Q YOU WERE FACING SOUTH AND LEANING UP AGAINST CRANE'S BUILDING THERE?
A YES.
Q IN THE ALLEY?
A IN THE ALLEY.
Q HOW FAR WERE YOU FROM THE EDGE OF THE ALLEY, EDGE OF THE BUILDING, CORNER OF THE BUILDING?
A A COUPLE OF STEPS IN THE ALLEY--- I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW EAR.
Q SIX OR EIGHT FEET?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW MANY FEET?
A ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE FOOT, I GUESS.
Q YOU WERE STANDING THE NEAREST TO THE STREET, THE NEARER THE STREET, OR WAS ALBRIGHT STANDING NEARER THE STREET THAN YOU?
A I WAS STANDING NEAREST THE STREET.
Q ALBRIGHT STOOD AT YOUR LEFT?
A YES SIR.
Q AND BOTH LEANED UP THERE TALKING?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT THERE YOU WENT RIGHT THERE THE FIRST THING?
A YES, I WENT UP TO THE ALLEY.
Q YOU WENT UP TO THE ALLEY AND FOUND ALBRIGHT THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM BEFORE YOU GOT TO HIM?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU SAW A MAN STANDING THERE?
A I KNOW THE MAN WHEN I COME UP---I SAW HIM STANDING THERE.
Q HOW FAR DID YOU GO---HOW FAR FROM HIM WERE YOU WHEN YOU FIRST SAW HIM?
A I WAS CLOSE UP TO HIM.
Q YOU COME CLOSE UP TO HIM?
A YES SIR.
Q THEN YOU RECOGNIZED HIM?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT DID YOU SAY?
A I TOLD HIM "HELLO".
Q DID YOU SAY "HELLO ALBRIGHT"?
A YES SIR.
Q IS THAT THE WAY YOU SPOKE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT DID HE SAY, "HELLO KRUMM?"
A YES SIR.
Q THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU ASK HIM HOW HE COME TO BE THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT DID HE SAY?
A HE SAID HE HEARD OF A MEETING.
Q DID HE ASK YOU HOW YOU COME TO BE THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM?
A I TOLD HIM I WENT DOWN TO SEE A FRIEND.
Q DID YOU TELL HIM YOUR FRIEND'S NAME?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU TELL HIM YOUR FRIEND TOLD YOU TO MEET HIM THERE?
A NO SIR, HE DIDN'T TELL ME TO MEET HIM THERE.
Q I ASKED YOU IF YOU TOLD ALBRIGHT THAT YOUR FRIEND TOLD YOU TO MEET HIM THERE?
A NO SIR, I TOLD ALBRIGHT THAT I WANTED TO GO DOWN TO THE MEETING AND THAT I CALLED DOWN TO MEET A FRIEND.
Q THAT IS ALL YOU TOLD HIM?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU TALK ANY MORE TO ALBRIGHT?
A NOT THAT I KNOW, OF.
Q WHEN YOU GOT THERE AND GOT YOUR BACK AGAINST THE WALL AND STOOD
THERE TALKING WITH ALBRIGHT, PARSONS WAS SPEAKING?
A YES SIR.
Q COULD YOU HEAR WHAT WAS SAID?
A I COULDN'T HEAR MUCH OF HIM.
Q COULD YOU HEAR HIM?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR HIM?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING HE SAID?
A I HEARD HIM OBJECT TO GOULD---SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS.
Q YOU HEARD PARSONS SAY SOMETHING ABOUT JAY COULD?
A YES SIR.
Q ARE YOU SURE OF THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR SPIES SAY SOMETHING?
A YES, ALL I HEARD SPIES SAY, "A FEW WORDS MORE AND THEN WE WILL GO HOME BOYS."
Q THAT IS WHAT SPIES SAID?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU ARE SURE SPIES SAID THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN WAS IT SPIES SAID THAT?
A SHORTLY BEFORE THE POLICE CAME UP.
Q YOU KNOW SPIES, DO YOU?
MR. FOSTER: Q WHICH IS THE MAN THAT SAID THAT?
A I GUESS THAT IS THE MAN |POINTING|.
MR. GRINNELL: Q THAT MAN WITH THISKERS?
A YES SIR.
Q IS THAT SPIES?
A I SUPPOSE THAT IS THE MAN THAT SPOKE LAST.
Q IS HE THE ONE THAT SAID THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q HE SAID, "WE WILL HAVE TO GO HOME"?
A HE SAID "A FEW WORDS MORE BOYS, AND THEN WE WILL GO HOME."
Q ARE THOSE THE EXACT WORDS HE SAID?
A I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.
Q WHAT IS YOUR REMEMBRANCE?
A YES SIR.
Q WERE YOU STANDING IN THE ALLEY THEN?
A YES SIR.
Q HAD YOU STOOD IN THE ALLEY ALL THAT TIME UP TO THAT TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q NEVER HAD COME OUT OF THE ALLEY?
A NO SIR.
Q AT THE TIME PARSONS WAS SPEAKING---WHAT DID YOU HEAR PARSONS SAY BESIDES WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT JAY GOULD?
A I DIDN'T HEAR EVERY WORDS THAT HE SAID----THAT IS ALL I HEARD WHAT HE SAID.
Q JUST THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q DIDN'T YOU HEAR PARSONS SAY ANYTHING ABOUT "WHEN YOU GET READY TO DO IT, DO IT, AND DON'T MAKE ANY THREATS."
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY THAT?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR HIM SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THROTTLING THE LAW OR STABBING THE LAW?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR ANY BODY SAY ABOUT IT?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR PARSONS SAY "TO ARMS, TO ARMS"?
A NO SIR.
Q COULD YOU HAVE HEARD IT IF HE HAD SAID IT --- WERE YOU WHERE YOU COULD HEAR IT?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I COULD.
Q THE MEETING WAS NOT NOISY, WAS IT?
A NO SIR, A QUIET MEETING AS LONG AS I SEEN IT.
Q YOU COULD HEAR THIS TALK GOING ON ALL, THE TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU CANNOT REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT IT?
A NO SIR.
Q IT DID NOT ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION AT ALL?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU MANY FEET DID YOU MOVE AT ALL TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK WHILE PARSONS WAS SPEAKING?
A WE WERE STANDING RIGHT-AT THE CORNER.
Q YOU SAY YOU WERE THREE OR FOUR FEET FROM THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING IN THE ALLEY---DID YOU MOVE TOWARDS THE ALLEY OR TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK?
A WE MOVED IN THE ALLEY WHEN WE LIT OUR PIPES.
Q YOU MOVED FROM THERE BACK INTO THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU GET BACK AGAIN?
A COME BACK TO THE CORNER.
Q WHO WAS SPEAKING WHEN YOU WERE LIGHTING YOUR PIPE?
A A I BELIEVE IT WAS MR. PARSONS, I GUESS.
Q YOU ARE SURE, ARE YOU, OF THAT---WAS IT PARSONS OR FIELDEN?
A THAT MAN WAS SPEAKING |INDICATING|.
Q WHEN YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN YOU GOT BACK DID YOU STAND ON THE SIDEWALK THEN AFTER YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU STILL STAND LEANING UP AGAINST THE WALL?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND YOUR FACE TO THE SOUTH WALL?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WERE IN THE DARK?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS NOT THERE A LIGHT LIGHTED RIGHT THERE AT THE CORNER?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT.
Q YOU CAN'T RECOLLECT AT ALL?
A NO SIR.
Q WASN'T THERE A LIGHT LIGHTED AT THE CORNER OF THE ALLEY AND THE SIDEWALK?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT AT ALL.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY LIGHT THERE AT ALL?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT IT.
Q YOU DON'T RECOLLECT ANY LIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q AT THE TIME YOU SAW FIELDEN, YOU SAW HIM THERE, DIDN'T YOU?
A I SEEN FIELDEN.
Q YOU SAW HIM SPEAKING?
A SPEAKING.
Q YOU COULD NOT RECOGNIZE HIM HERE UNLESS YOU SAW HIM THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE?
A I NEVER SAW SPIES BEFORE.
Q THIS IS SPIES YOU SAY |INDICATING|?
A OR FIELDEN----I DON'T RECOLLECT HIM.
Q WHICH ONE IS IT?
A THAT MAN.
Q WITH THE WHISKERS----DID YOU EVER SEE HIM BEFORE?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM THAT NIGHT?
A I SEEN HIM THAT NIGHT.
Q WHERE?
A ON THE WAGON SPEAKING.
Q WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU SAW HIM?
A I WAS IN THE ALLEY.
Q WITH YOUR FACE SOUTH?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU MUST HAVE TURNED AROUND TO LOOK AT TO SEE THAT SPEAKER?
A I HAD MY BACK AGAINST THE WALL.
Q HOW COULD YOU SEE FIELDEN WHEN YOU STOOD WITH YOUR BACK TO THE WALL THERE?
A I STOOD THIS WAY AT THE FACTORY, AND COULD SEE HIM ANYHOW.
Q LOOKING STRAIGHT TOWARDS HIM?
A NO SIR, NOT STRAIGHT.
Q WHICH WAY WERE YOU LOOKING?
A TOWARD THE WAGON.
Q HOW COULD YOU LOOK TOWARDS THE WAGON IF YOUR BACK WAS UP AGAINST THE NORTH WALL?
A I WAS LOOKING THIS WAY AND STANDING RIGHT AT THE CORNER.
Q YOU STOOD RIGHT THERE AT THE CORNER WITH YOUR BACK AGAINST THE NORTH WALL?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU KEPT LOOKING THAT WAY?
A YES SIR.
Q KEPT TURNING YOUR HEAD OVER YOUR SHOULDER?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU TURNED YOUR HEAD OVER YOUR SHOULDER?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU SAW THEM SPEAKING?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU SAW PARSONS SPEAKING IN THE SAME WAY?
A I DIDN'T STAND RIGHT ALL THE TIME WITH MY BACK TO THE FACTORY.
Q WHERE DID YOU STAND ALL THE TIME?
A WHEN WE LIT OUR PIPE, WE DIDN'T HAVE OUR BACK TO THE SHOP
Q YOU COULDN;T SEE THEM THEN?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU CAME BACK WITH YOUR BACK TO THE SAME PLACE?
Q DID YOU SEE PARSONS SPEAK?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW WERE YOU STANDING WHEN YOU SAW PARSONS?
A THE SAME WAY.
Q YOU NEVER SAW EITHER OF THOSE MEN BEFORE?
A NO SIR.
Q HAVEN'T SEEN EITHER SINCE UNTIL YOU CAME IN COURT?
A NO SIR.
Q NEITHER OF THEM?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM?
A NO SIR.
Q THAT WAS THE ONLY TIME IN YOUR LIFE YOU EVER SAW THEM?
A YES SIR.
Q UNTIL YOU SAW THEM HERE?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU MUST HAVE OBSERVED THEM VERY CLOSELY THAT NIGHT. YOU MUST HAVE LOOKED AT THEM CLOSELY.
A IF I SEE A MAN ONCE, I KNOW HIM AGAIN.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM MORE THAN ONCE?
A NO SIR, THAT IS THE ONLY TIME.
Q JUST LOOKED OVER YOUR SHOULDER AND LOOKED BACK AGAIN?
A YES SIR.
Q THEN YOU WENT ON WITH ALBRIGHT?
A YES SIR.
Q DID ALBRIGHT SEE THEM TOO?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE DID.
Q DID HE SAY ANY THING ABOUT IT?
A NO SIR.
Q HE STOOD TO YOUR LEFT IN THE ALLEY?
A YES SIR.
Q LEANING UP AGAINST THE WALL?
A YES SIR.
Q THAT WAS THREE OF FOUR FEET FROM THE EDGE OF THE ALLEY?
A IT WAS RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF THE ALLEY.
Q I UNDERSTOOD YOU A MOMENT AGO IT WAS TWO OR THREE STEPS IN?
A WE LIT OUR PIPES BACK THERE.
Q YOU WENT IN FURTHER AFTER YOU STOOD THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW FAR WERE YOU IN THE ALLEY WHEN YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE?
A THREE OR FOUR STEPS.
Q HOW FAR IN THE ALLEY WERE YOU BEFORE YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE?
A RIGHT AT THE CORNER.
Q ALBRIGHT WAS NOT MARRIED?
A HE WAS NOT.
Q HOW COULD HE BE AT THE CORNER?
A HE WAS RIGHT AT MY LEFT.
Q HE WAS A STEP FROM THE CORNER?
A YES SIR, INTO THE ALLEY.
Q COULD ALBRIGHT SEE PARSONS FROM WHERE HE STOOD?
A HE COULD HAVE.
Q COULD HE SEE FIELDEN FROM WHERE HE STOOD?
A SURELY.
Q WAS NOT THERE A WHOLE BRICK WALL BETWEEN HIM AND THE WAGON?
A NO SIR. THERE WAS NO BRICK WALL BETWEEN.
Q WHERE WAS THAT WAGON?
A AT THE NORTH CORNER, RIGHT AT THE SHOP, I GUESS, IN THE STREET.
Q YOU GUESS---WHAT DO YOU MEAN---DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT WAGON WAS?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE WAS IT?
A ON THE STREET.
Q WHERE?
A RIGHT NEAR THE SIDEWALK.
Q HOW FAR FROM THE ALLEY?
A FIVE OR SIX FOOT.
Q NORTH OF THE ALLEY?
A YES.
Q WHICH END OF THE WAGON ---THE, TONGUE END OR TAIL END?
A I DIDN'T NOTICE.
Q YOU NOTICED THE SPEAKERS?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DID THEY STAND?
A ON THE WAGON.
Q WHICH WAY DID THEY FACE WHEN THEY SPOKE?
A TOWARDS THE SOUTH I GUESS.
Q WHAT do YOU MEAN BY GUESS--- YOU ARE NOT SURE ABOUT IT?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY ALL FACED SOUTH, BUT THE SPEAKER FACED SOUTH.
Q THE SPEAKER FACED SOUTH?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE---YOU AND ALBRIGHT----DID YOU EACH LIGHT A PIPE?
A YES.
Q HAD FIELDEN THEN SAID, WHEN YOU LIGHTED YOUR PIPE, BEFORE YOU WENT IN THERE TO LIGHT YOUR PIPE, HAD FIELDEN SAID, "BOYS WAIT A MINUTE AND THEN WE WILL GO HOME"?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT THAT---YES, I GUESS HE DID.
Q HE ALREADY SAID THAT WHEN YOU WENT IN TO LIGHT YOUR PIPES?
A YES.
Q ARE YOU SURE OF THAT?
A YES SIR.
Q NOW WHEN YOU CAME BACK, YOU DIDN'T LOOK AROUND TO SEE THE SPEAKER, DID YOU?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER SAW THE SPEAKER SINCE----YOU JUST LOOKED OVER YOUR SHOULDER AND SAW WHO WAS SPEAKING, AND WENT ON TALKING WITH ALBRIGHT?
A YES.
Q HOW MANY FEET WAS YOUR FACE FROM THAT SPEAKER WHEN YOU DID THAT, WHEN YOU LOOKED OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO SEE WHO WAS SPEAKING, HOW MANY FEET WERE YOU FROM HIM?
A PROBABLY EIGHT ---SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q WHAT IS YOUR BUSINESS?
A WOOD WORK MACHINERY.
Q YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT DISTANCES, AND YOU WOULD KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.
A IF I HAVE A RULE.
Q DO YOU THINK IT WAS EIGHT FEET MORE OR LESS?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WHAT IS YOUR ESTIMATION OF THE DISTANCE?
A I THINK IT WAS ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE FEET FROM THERE.
Q COULD IT BE MORE THAN NINE FEET?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE DISTANCE YOU WERE STANDING WHEN YOU LOOKED OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO SEE THE SPEAKER----WHO DO YOU THINK THE DISTANCE WAS FROM YOURSELF TO THE SPEAKER?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WAS IT TEN FEET?
A I COULD NOT TELL.
Q I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO TELL ACCURATELY, BUT BEING A MECHANIC YOU OUGHT TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT DISTANCES?
A IF I HAVE A RULE, YES SIR.
Q YOU HAVE USED THE RULE A GOOD MANY YEARS?
A YES SIR.
Q CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MANY FEET IT WAS FROM YOU TO THE SPEAKER, WHETHER EIGHT, NINE, TWELVE OR FORTY?
A I COULDN'T TELL, YOU.
Q YOU COULDN'T TELL ANYTHING ABOUT IT?
A NO SIR.
Q WASN'T THERE A CROWD OF PEOPLE BETWEEN YOU AND THE SPEAKER?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW MANY?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WAS THE SIDEWALK JAMMED FULL OF PEOPLE?
A NO NOT EXACTLY.
Q WAS THERE A GOOD MANY PEOPLE THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q WERE THEY STANDING STILL OR MOVING AROUND?
A STANDING STILL---SOME OF THEM.
Q WASN'T THE ALLEY FULL OF PEOPLE BETWEEN YOU AND THE EDGE OF THE ALLEY?
A THERE WAS A FEW MEN STANDING THERE.
Q WASN'T THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ALLEY ALSO FILLED WITH PEOPLE?
A NO SIR.
Q WASN'T THERE ANY PEOPLE THERE?
A THERE WAS A FEW MEN IN THERE.
Q HOW MANY?
A I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY.
Q DID YOU AND ALBRIGHT, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING THERE, DID YOU TALK ABOUT THE EIGHT HOUR MOVEMENT WHEN YOU STOOD IN THE ALLEY?
A WE WERE JUST LISTENING TO THEM----WE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE EIGHT HOUR MOVEMENT.
Q DID YOU LISTEN TO THEM?
A LISTENED TO THE SPEAKERS.
Q DID YOU?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU HEARD ALL THEY SAID?
A I DON'T RECOLECT ANY THING OF IT ANY MORE.
Q DID YOU HEAR ALL THEY SAID?
A NO, I DIDN'T HEAR ALL OF IT, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT.
Q THEY TALKED IN ENGLISH?
A YES.
Q YOU TALK ENGLISH?
A YES.
Q AT THE TIME THAT YOU HEARD FIELDEN MAKE THE REMARK "WE WILL GO HOME BOYS IN A MINUTE" OR SOMETHING OF THAT CHARACTER, WHERE WERE THE POLICE?
A THEY WERE JUST COMING UP DESPLAINES STREET.
Q DID YOU SEE SPIES THERE THAT NIGHT?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT WHETHER I DID.
Q I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY A MOMENT AGO YOU SAW SPIES THERE--DID YOU SEE SPIES THERE THAT NIGHT?
A SPIES WAS SPEAKING I GUESS---I DON'T KNOW.
Q THAT MAN THERE THAT SITS IN THE CORNER---DID YOU SEE THAT MAN THERE THAT NIGHT |INDICATIN|?
A I SAW HIM IN THE WAGON YES SIR.
Q WHEN WAS HE ON THE WAGON?
A I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS.
Q WAS IT WHEN YOU FIRST COME THERE?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS, YES.
Q DIDN'T YOU SEE A MAN WITH GLASSES THERE?
A NO SIR.
Q DIDN'T YOU SEE ANYBODY THERE WITH GLASSES?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE THAT MAN THERE, THE THIRD ONE FROM THE END, THE THIRD FROM SPIES?
A NO SIR, I DIDN'T SEE HIM.
Q DIDN'T SEE HIM AT ALL?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU ARE SURE YOU SAW PARSONS?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU ARE SURE YOU SAW FIELDEN?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SEE THE NEXT MAN THERE, THE FIFTH IN THE ROW, THE SIXTH IN THE ROW?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I DID SEE HIM.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM?
A I DON'T THINK I DID.
Q HOW MANY MEN DID YOU SEE ON THE WAGON?
A FOUR OR FIVE I GUESS.
Q WERE THEY COMING AND GOING, FIRST ONE MAN WOULD BE ON THE WAGON AND THEN ANOTHER?
A NO SIR.
Q SOME MEN STOOD THERE ALL THE TIME?
A WHEN I SEEN THEM YES.
Q DID YOU SEE THEM MORE THAN ONCE?
A NO, SIR I SEEN THEM THAT NIGHT.
Q MORE THAN ONCE THAT NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q WERE YOU TALKING WITH ALBRIGHT---DIDN'T YOU TALK WITH ALBRIGHT ABOUT WHAT THE SPEAKERS WERE TALKING ABOUT?
A NO SIR.
Q Didn't talk with Albright about what the speakers were saying
A No sir
Q DID YOU TALK WITH ALBRIGHT ABOUT THE EIGHT HOUR MOVEMENT?
A NO SIR.
Q WHAT DID YOU TALK WITH ALBRIGHT THERE ABOUT, AL THE TIME?
A WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SHOP, ABOUT OUR SHOP.
Q WHERE YOU WORKED?
A YES SIR.
Q ABOUT THE EIGHT HOUR BUSINESS?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU GET THE EIGHT HOURS THERE?
A YES SIR, WE GOT THEM FOR TWO WEEKS.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE BOMB WAS THROWN?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU HEAR IT?
A YES.
Q WERE YOU STANDING THERE AT THAT SAME SPOT?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU SAW IT IN THE AIR?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE WAS IT WHEN YOU SAW IT?
A IT WAS UP ABOUT TEN FEET.
Q RIGHT OVER THE SIDEWALK?
A YES SIR.
Q RIGHT WHERE YOU STOOD?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW MANY FEET WERE YOU FROM THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING WHEN YOU SAW THAT BOMB, THAT THING IN THE AIR?
A MIGHT BE EIGHTEEN OR TWENTY FEET I GUESS.
Q I WILL ASK YOU HOW FAR YOU STOOD FROM THE EDGE OF THE BUILDING IN THE ALLEY WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE BOMB?
A I WAS STANDING RIGHT AT THE CORNER.
Q WHAT CORNER?
A CRANE'S SHOP.
Q RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU HAD BEEN STANDING?
A YES SIR.
Q FACING SOUTH?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU NEVER LEFT THAT?
A NO SIR.
Q WHEN YOU SAW THE BOMB IT WAS ABOUT TEN FEET IN THE AIR?
A YES SIR.
Q AND IT WAS OVER THE SIDEWALK?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW FAR WAS IT FROM THE ALLEY?
A ABOUT EIGHTEEN OR TWENTY FEET.
Q WHICH WAY?
A UP SOUTH.
Q THEN YOU SAW IT COME FROM THE STREET BEHIND YOU?
A I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE IT COME FROM.
Q DID IT COME FROM THE BUILDING UP ABOVE YOUR HEAD?
A I COULDN'T TELL WHERE IT COME FROM. I SEEN IT UP IN THE AIR TEN FOOT.
Q WHEN YOU SAW IT TEN FOOT IT WAS OVER THE SIDEWALK?
A RIGHT NEAR THE EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK.
Q AND TEN FEET ABOVE THE STREET?
A YES.
Q YOU SAW IT GO UP THERE?
A COME DOWN.
Q WHERE DID IT LAND?
A RIGHT WHERE THE POLICE STOOD.
Q WHERE DID THE POLICE STAND?
A RIGHT ON THE STREET ON DESPLAINES.
Q YOU WERE STANDING IN THE ALLEY?
A YES, AT THE CORNER.
Q IN REFERENCE TO THE ALLEY WHERE DID IT FAIL---IT FELL ON THE STREET YOU SAY?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET?
A I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHETHER IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE.
Q WAS IT ABOUT THE MIDDLE?
A SOMEWHERES AROUND THE MIDDLE.
Q ABOUT THE MIDDLE IT FELL?
A YES.
Q DID IT FALL AT THAT TIME SO YOU COULD SEE IT WHEN IT FELL?
A NO SIR.
Q WHY?
A I NEVER NOTICED IT NO MORE.
Q YOU SAW THE EXPLOSION?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE WAS THAT EXPLOSION?
A RIGHT IN THE STREET.
Q DID YOU SEE IT?
A NO SIR, I DIDN'T SEE THE EXPLOSION.
Q IT WAS TOO FAR SOUTH?
S YES SIR.
Q HOW FAR SOUTH WAS IT FROM THE LINE OF THE ALLEY---SUPPOSING YOU TOOK THAT ALLEY AND PROJECTED IT ACROSS THE STREET, HOW FAR SOUTH OF THAT WAS IT THE BOMB EXPLODED?
A TWENTY FEET.
Q TWENTY FEET SOUTH OF THERE?
A FROM THE ALLEY, YES SIR.
Q EXPLODED TWENTY FEET SOUTH OF THE ALLEY?
A I THINK SO.
Q THAT IS RIGHT?
A I GUESS SO.
Q YOU WERE THERE, YOU SAW IT?
A I DIDN'T SEE IT EXPLODE.
Q IT WAS TOO FAR SOUTH?
A YES SIR.
Q THERE WERE SOME BOXES THERE---DID YOU SEE THE BOXES ON THE SIDEWALK?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY BOXES ON THE SIDEWALK?
A NO SIR.
Q HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THERE SINCE?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU DIDN'T GO THERE THE NEXT DAY?
A NO SIR.
Q HAVE YOU EVER BEEN DOWN THERE AT ALL IN YOUR LIFE?
A I PASSED BY, YES.
Q WERE YOU THERE THAT NIGHT?
A I WAS THERE THAT NIGHT.
Q HOW LONG?
A UNTIL ABOUT TEN O'CLOCK I GUESS.
Q WHERE WERE THOSE BOXES ON THAT SIDEWALK?
A I DIDN'T SEE NO BOXES.
Q IF THERE HAD BEEN ANY THERE, WOULD YOU HAVE SEEN THEM. IF THERE HAD BEEN A BIG PILE OF BOXES COULD YOU HAVE HELPED SEEING THEM FROM WHERE YOU STOOD?
OBJECTED TO.
Q WERE YOU LOOKING DIRECTLY SOUTH MOST OF THE TIME WHILE YOU WERE STANDING, LEANING UP AGAINST THE WALL, WERE YOU LOOKING RIGHT SOUTH LEANING UP AGAINST THE WALL, AND LOOKING SOUTH NEARLY ALL THE TIME?
A NO SIR.
Q WHERE WERE YOU LOOKING?
A TOWARDS THE WAGON.
Q I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU ONLY LOOKED TOWARDS THE WAGON ONCE OR TWICE?
A I DIDN'T SAY NOTHING.
Q HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU LOOK TOWARDS THE WAGON OVER YOUR SHOULDER?
A I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES.
Q DID YOU LOOK A DOZEN TIMES?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER TO SEE THE
SPEAKER?
A I DIDN'T KEEP A COUNT OF THEM.
Q HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU THINK YOU LOOKED OVER?
A I GUESS IT WAS ABOUT A DOZEN TIMES.
Q HOW LONG A TIME WERE YOU LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER AT ANY ONE TIME WHEN YOU STOOD THERE?
A A FEW MINUTES.
Q FROM WHERE YOU STOOD THERE LEANING YOUR BACK AGAINST THE WALL NEAR THE EDGE OF THE ALLEY YOU COULD NOT HAVE SEEN THE SPEAKERS UNLESS YOU TUNRED YOUR HEAD?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU HAD TO TURN YOUR HEAD AND LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW LONG A TIME DID YOU STAND IN THAT POSITION WITH YOUR HEAD TURNED OVER YOUR SHOULDER AT ONE TIME?
A A MINUTE OR SO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY LAMP LIGHTED?
A I DID NOT. I DON'T RECOLLECT WHETHER I DID OR NOT.
Q DO YOU RECOLLECT WHETHER THERE WAS ANY LAMPS THERE OR NOT?
A THERE WAS LAMPS THERE.
Q HOW DO YOU KNOW?
A I KNOW THE POST WAS STANDING THERE.
Q HOW DO YOU KNOW?
A I OFTEN PASSED BY THERE.
Q HOW DID YOU LEARN THAT, SINCE THAT NIGHT PASSING BY?
A NO SIR, I WORKED ON THE CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND JEFFERSON.
Q WHEN?
A FOR TEN YEARS.
Q WHEN?
A ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO.
Q YOU REMEMBER THAT PARTICULAR LAMP POST BECAUSE YOU WORKED ON THE CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND JEFFERSON?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU REMEMBER THIS PARTICULAR LAMP POST ON THIS STREET BECAUSE YOU WORKED ON THE CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND JEFFERSON SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO, AND WORKED HERE TEN YEARS----IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU WALKED BY THIS STREET EVERY DAY?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DID YOU BOARD THEN?
A I WAS STAYING WITH MY WIFE.
Q WHERE?
A OVER ON THE NORTH SIDE.
Q WHERE WAS YOUR WIFE'S PEOPLE LIVING?
A THE NORTH SIDE.
Q WHERE?
A NEAR SEDGWICK STREET.
Q WHAT IS THEIR NAME?
S STUBE.
Q WHEREABOUTS ON SEDGWICK STREET?
A THEY DON'T LIVE ON SEDGWICK ---THEY LIVE ON A BY STREET- I DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF THE STREET.
Q HOW LONG SINCE YOU SEEN THEM?
A IT IS OVER A YEAR.
Q HOW LONG HAVE THEY LIVED AT THAT PLACE OVER THERE?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q HAVE THEY LIVED THERE A GREAT WHILE?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY LIVE THERE NOW OR NOT, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM IN A YEAR.
Q WHERE DID THEY LIVE WHEN YOU DID KNOW THEM?
A THEY LIVED IN THAT PLACE.
Q WHAT PLACE?
A NEAR SEDGWICK STREET.
Q ON WHAT STREET?
A I DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF THE STREET.
Q WHAT IS STUBE'S FIRST NAME?
A THEODORE STUBE.
Q WHAT IS HIS BUSINESS?
A WORKING IN A TRUNK FACTORY.
Q WHERE?
A WELLS STREET.
Q HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN WORKING AT THAT FACTORY?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE AT THIS PLACE WHERE YOU CAN'T TELL WHERE IT IS---HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE AT THAT PLACE THERE A YEAR AGO?
A I LIVED THERE ONE YEAR IN THAT PLACE.
Q THAT IS THE NORTH SIDE?
A THE NORTH SIDE.
Q DIDN'T THAT BOMB THAT YOU DIDN'T SEE EXPLODE, BUT HEARD THE NOISE, DIDN'T THAT EXPLODE AT LEAST FORTY FEET SOUTH OF THE LINE OF THE ALLEY?
A I DON'T KNOW, I MIGHT JUDGE IT WAS ABOUT TWENTY FEET---THAT IS ALL I KNOW.
Q YOUR JUDGEMENT IS IT WAS TWENTY FEET SOUTH?
A YES SIR.
Q WASN'T IT OVER FORTY FEET?
A I COULDN'T TELL.
Q WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WASN'T IT IN YOUR OPINION OVER FORTY FEET SOUTH OF THAT ALLEY?
A NO SIR.
Q WHO FIRED FIRST?
A THE SHOT COME SOUTH. THE SHOT COME FROM WHERE THE POLICE STOOD. I DON'T KNOW WHO FIRED.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU STAND THERE AFTER THEY BEGAN SHOOTING?
A I RAN AWAY RIGHT AFTER THE BOMB EXPLODED.
Q YOU SAY IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU HEARD A SHOT FIRED BEFORE YOU HEARD THE BOMB EXPLODE?
A I DO.
Q HOW LONG BEFORE YOU SAW THAT FUSE IN THE AIR?
A IT WAS RIGHT AFTER THE SHOT.
Q WHERE DID THAT SHOT COME FROM?
A THE FIRST SHOT?
Q YES SIR.
A FROM WHERE THE POLICE WERE STANDING SOUTH.
Q FROM WHERE THEY WERE STANDING?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE WERE THE POLICE STANDING?
A ON DESPLAINES STREET.
Q WHERE?
A THEY WERE ABOUT FORTY FEET OR FIFTY FEET AWAY FROM THE WAGON I GUESS. I SEEN ONE MAN WALKING UP TO THE SPEAKER ON THE WAGON.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "I GUESS"---THAT YOU DON'T REMEMBER?
A I AM SURE.
Q THAT YOU ARE NOT SURE?
A I AM SURE ABOUT IT.
Q WERE NOT THOSE POLICE WITHIN TEN FEET OF THAT WAGON, THE ROW OF POLICEMEN RIGHT THERE WITHIN TEN FEET OF THAT WAGON?
A I GUESS THE FIRST ONE WAS ABOUT.
Q YOU MEAN THE FIRST POLICEMAN---I AM ASKING YOU OF THE ROW OF POLICEMEN---WERE NOT THEY WITHIN TEN FEET OF THAT WAGON INSTEAD OF FORTY OR FIFTY?
A THE FIRST ONE WAS, ABOUT TEN FEET.
Q THE FIRST ONE?
A THE POLICEMEN.
Q DO YOU MEAN ONE MAN OR TWO?
A THE WHOLE ROW.
Q THEY WERE TEN FEET SOUTH OF THE WAGON?
A YES SIR.
Q THE NEXT ROW, HOW FAR WAS THAT SOUTH?
A I COULDN'T TELL.
Q COULD YOU SEE MORE THAN ONE ROW?
A NO SIR.
Q WHEN YOU HEARD THAT PISTOL SHOT, DID IT COME FROM THAT FIRST ROW OF POLICEMEN?
A I COULDN'T TELL. IT COME FROM THAT WAY.
Q DID IT COME FROM THAT WAY?
A IT COME FROM THE SOUTH, YES SIR.
Q WAS THAT ROW OF POLICEMEN SO YOU COULD SEE THEM WHEN YOU STOOD THERE LEANING UP AGAINST THAT WALL, THE NORTH WALL NEAR THE EDGE, WHEN YOU TURNED TO THE RIGHT TO LOOK, YOU WOULD LOOK STRAIGHT OUT INTO THE STREET, WOULDN'T YOU, LOOK STRAIGHT OUT INTO THE STREET?
A NOT STRAIGHT.
Q YOU COULD BY TURNING YOUR HEAD LOOK STRAIGHT INTO THE STREET, COULDN'T YOU?
A YES.
Q WHEN YOU LOOKED STRAIGHT INTO THE STREET, WAS THERE A ROW OF POLICEMEN THERE?
A YES SIR, I SEEN A ROW OF POLICEMEN.
Q DID THAT PISTOL SHOT COME FROM THAT ROW?
A I DON'T KNOW---IT COME FROM THE SOUTH.
Q THAT WASN'T SOUTH, IF THEY WERE RIGHT OPPOSITE YOU, DID THE PISTOL SHOT COME FROM THAT ROW, OR SOUTH OF THAT ROW?
A I AIN'T SURE. I THINK IT WAS SOUTH.
Q HOW FAR SOUTH DO YOU THINK THAT WAS
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q WHEN YOU HEARD THAT PISTOL SHOT, YOU THEN HEARD THE BOMB EXPLODE, DID YOU NOT?
A YES SIR, RIGHT AFTER.
Q WHO BEGAN FIRING RIGHT AFTER THAT?
A I RAN AWAY--- I DON'T KNOW.
Q WHICH WAY DID YOU RUN?
A I RUN THROUGH CRANE'S ALLEY, AND SOME RIGHT OUT ON RANDOLPH STREET.
Q ANYBODY RUNNING THROUGH THE ALLEY WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING?
A YES SIR, SOME MORE MEN RUNNING THROUGH THE ALLEY.
Q A GOOD MANY PEOPLE BETWEEN YOU AND THE LAMP POST?
A NO SIR.
Q OR WAS THERE ANYBODY BETWEEN YOU AND THE LAMP POST?
A IN THE ALLEY?
Q YES SIR.
A YES SIR. THERE WAS SOME RUNNING.
Q DID YOU GO HOME WITH ALBRIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q WHERE DOES ALBRIGHT LIVE?
A ON TWENTY FIRST STREET.
Q WHERE ABOUT ON TWENTY FIRST?
A I DON'T KNOW THE HOUSE.
Q DID ALBRIGHT RUN BEFORE, YOU DID?
A NO SIR.
Q DID HE RUN AFTER YOU DID?
A WE BOTH RUN TOGETHER.
Q WHERE DID YOU GET SEPARATED?
A IN THE ALLEY THERE.
Q WHEN DID YOU NEXT SEE ALBRIGHT?
A THE NEXT DAY.
Q THEN YOU WENT ALL OVER THIS STORY WITH HIM, DIDN'T YOU---THEN YOU TALKED OVER THIS CASE WITH HIM, TALKED OVER WHAT YOU SAW AND HEARD?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU TALK WITH HIM THE NEXT DAY?
A YES SIR.
Q AT THE SHOP?
A YES SIR.
Q NOT AT YOUR HOUSE?
A NO SIR.
Q NOT ON THE STREET?
A NO SIR.
Q NOT ON THE ROAD GOING HOME FROM THE SHOP?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU BOTH WORK AT THE SAME PLACE IN THE SHOP?
A IN THE SAME SHOP. HE WORKED UPSTAIRS AND I WORKED DOWN STAIRS.
Q WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU TALKED?
A AT NOON TIME.
Q YOU TALKED IT ALL OVER?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE TALKED IT ALL OVER.
Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE ANY COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENSE? WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE ZEISLER OR SALOMON OR ANY OF THESE GENTLEMEN --- WHEN DID YOU FIRST TELL THEN ABOUT THIS?
A I SEE SALOMON SUNDAY MORNING.
Q LAST SUNDAY?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW DID HE COME TO CALL ON YOU?
A I WAS READING THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG, AND SEEN A FEW WORDS IN THERE.
Q IT SAID TO CALL ON SALOMON AND ZEISLER?
A YES. SIR.
Q YOU WENT OVER TO SEE THEM?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN DID YOU CO FIRST?
A SUNDAY MORNING.
Q WHAT SUNDAY MORNING?
A LAST SUNDAY MORNING.
Q IS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU HAD BEEN DOWN THERE?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU EVER TOLD ANYBODY ABOUT THE CASE?
A YES SIR.
Q WAS IT THE FIRST TIME YOU EVER TOLD ANYBODY ABOUT WHAT YOU KNEW ABOUT IT?
A NO SIR, I TOLD ALBRIGHT.
Q BESIDES ALBRIGHT?
A I TOLD ALBRIGHT I SEEN THAT NOTICE.
Q HE SAW IT TOO?
A NO SIR, HE DIDN'T SEE IT.
Q HE WAS STANDING TOO FAR IN THE ALLEY, HE DIDN'T SEE IT ---WHERE WAS HE WORKING?
A I DON'T KNOW.
Q DIDN'T HE SAY HE SAW IT THE NEXT DAY?
A HE SAYS HE DIDN'T SEE IT.
Q DID YOU BRING HIS ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT YOU HEARD THE PISTOL SHOT BEFORE THE BOMB EXPLODED?---WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT IT?
A WHAT IS IT?
Q YOU SAY YOU HEARD A PISTOL SHOT BEFORE THAT BOMB?
A YES SIR.
Q DID YOU SAY ANYTHING TO ALBRIGHT ABOUT THAT?
Q HE SAYS HE DON'T SEE IT.
Q HE DID HEAR THAT?
A YES.
Q AND HE HEARD THE BOMB EXPLODE TOO?
A YES.
Q AND THIS LAST SUNDAY TWO OR THREE DAYS AGO IS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW SALOMON AND ZEISLER?
A YES.
Q YOU TALKED WITH THEM THEN ABOUT THE CASE FOR THE FIRST TIME?
A YES.
Q WHEN WAS IT YOU SAW IN THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG THAT THEY WANTED WITNESSES TO APPEAR AT THEIR OFFICE?
A I SEEN IT IN THE PAPER.
Q WHEN?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT WHAT DAY IT WAS.
Q ABOUT WHAT DAY WAS IT?
A I SEEN IT IN THE PAPER AFTER THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG COME OUT.
Q WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU SAW IN THAT NEWSPAPER THAT CAUSED YOU TO COME DOWN THERE?
A THAT ANYBODY THAT KNOWED ANYTHING ABOUT THAT SHOULD COME TO BE WITNESS.
Q EVERYBODY THAT KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE THROWING OF THE BOMB?
A YES SIR.
Q WASN'T IT ANYBODY THAT KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT THE THROWING OF THE BOMB---I AM TESTING HIS REMEMBRANCE OF THAT.
A WHAT IS IT?
Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THAT, A WEEK AGO OR TWO WEEKS AGO?
A WHAT?
Q THAT NOTICE?
A I SEEN IT---
Q RIGHT AFTER THE TRANSACTION?
A AFTER THE ZEITUNG.
Q YOU NEVER GOT DOWN UNTIL SUNDAY?
A NO SIR.
Q DID ANYBODY SEE YOU IN THE MEANTIME---DID ANYBODY TALK WITH YOU EXCEPT ALBRIGHT IN THE MEANTIME ABOUT THAT MATTER, ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO TESTIFY TO---DID YOU TELL ANYBODY?
A NO SIR.
Q ARE YOU A SOCIALIST?
A NO SIR.
Q WERE YOU EVER A SOCIALIST?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU EVER BELONG TO ANY OF THE GROUPS?
A I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS AT ALL?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN READING THE ARBEITER ZEITUNG?
A SINCE IT COME OUT.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN, SINCE IT COME OUT?
A GOT THE NEW PRESS.
Q YOU SAW IT RIGHT AFTER THE 4TH OF MAY, RIGHT AFTER THE TRANSACTION?
A YES.
Q THAT IS THE FIRST TIME YOU BEGAN TO READ IT?
A YES SIR.
Q And you read it ever since?
A Yes sir.
Q YOU NEVER SAW SPIES BEFORE THAT NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER SAW FIELDEN BEFORE THAT NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER SAW PARSONS BEFORE THAT NIGHT?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER SEEN ANY OF THE OTHER DEFENDANTS AT ANY TIME?
A NO SIR.
Q DID YOU EVER CALL UPON EITHER OF THE DEFENDANTS IN THE JAIL?
A I DID NOT.
Q HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN TO SALOMON AND ZEISLER'S OFFICE?
A TWICE, SUNDAY MORNING AND TO-DAY.
Q WHEN WERE YOU SUBPOENAED TO BE HERE AS A WITNESS?
A I SHOULD COME DOWN TO-DAY.
Q WHO TOLD YOU TO COME DOWN TO-DAY?
A SALOMON.
Q DID HE GO UP TO YOUR HOUSE?
A NO SIR.
Q HOW COULD HE TELL YOU THEN?
A I WAS THERE SUNDAY MORNING AND HE TOLD ME.
Q HE TOLD YOU TO COME DOWN TO-DAY?
A YES SIR.
Q TOLD YOU TO COME DOWN WEDNESDAY?
A YES SIR.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINSTION BY
MR. FOSTER.
Q I JUDGE FROM WHAT YOU SAY IN ANSWER TO MR. GRINNELL'S QUESTIONS THAT YOU AND YOUR WIFE HAD SOME TROUBLE AND DON'T LIVE TOGETHER?
A YES SIR.
Q OUT THERE AT MC.CORMICK'S, YOU SAY YOU DON'T KNOW THE NAMES OF THE STREETS AT AND ABOUT THE FACTORY---IS IT TRUE THAT IT IS SETTLED
UP AND AROUND THERE, OR IS IT PRAIRIE COUNTRY?
A IT IS PRAIRIE.
Q THE STREETS ARE NOT WELL DEFINED, NOT PAVED?
A NO SIR.
Q NOT MACADAMIZED, NOT GUTTED?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU DON'T KNOW THE NAMES OF THE STREETS ABOUT THOSE FACTORIES?
A I DO NOT.
Q YOU WORK FOR WHOM?
A W. W. KIMBALL.
Q THE ORGAN MAN?
A THE ORGAN FACTORY.
Q AND HAVE FOR OVER THREE YEARS?
A SOMEWHERES AROUND THREE YEARS.
Q YOU SAY THAT YOU WENT DOWN THAT EVENING TO SEE A FRIEND?
A YES SIR.
Q THAT FRIEND HAD BEEN UP TO SEE YOU IN THE AFTERNOON?
A NOT THAT SAME DAY.
Q ON ANOTHER DAY?
A ANOTHER DAY.
Q HE TOLD YOU TO CALL DOWN AT THE CORNER OF LAKE AND RANDOLPH STREETS?
A RANDOLPH AND CANAL STREETS.
Q AT THE CORNER OF CANAL AND RANDOLPH STREETS, AND HE WOULD SEE YOU THERE?
A YES.
Q THERE WAS NO PARTICULAR PLACE AGREED EXCEPT CANAL AND RANDOLPH?
A NO SIR.
Q THAT WAS THE OBJECT YOU HAD IN GOING DOWN AT THAT TIME?
A YES SIR.
Q NOW, MR. GRINNELL GOT YOU TO SAY A NUMBER OF TIMES HERE THAT YOU ONLY SAW THESE SPEAKERS ONCE. DO YOU WANT THE JURY TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ONLY LOOKED AT THEN ONCE, OR THAT YOU ONLY SAW THEM ONE NIGHT?
A I ONLY SAW THEM THE ONE NIGHT.
Q YOU DON'T MEAN THEN THAT YOU ONLY LOOKED ONCE AT THAT WAGON?
A NO SIR, I LOOKED THERE MORE, I ONLY SEEN THEM THAT NIGHT.
Q I WILL ASK YOU WETHER YOU STOOD WITH YOUR BACK TO THE BUILDING IN THIS POSITION CONSTANTLY ALL THE TIME, OR WHETHER YOU MEAN THAT WAS THE GENERAL POSITION, AND THAT YOU SHIFTED ABOUT SOME?
OBJECTED TO.
Q HOW DID YOU STAND---DID YOU STAND STEADILY AGAINST THE BUILDING?
OBJECTED TO ON THE GROUND THAT IT IS NOT PROPER RE-DIRECT.
THE COURT: THAT IS ADMISSIBLE, WHETHER YOU STOOD STILL EXCEPT WHEN YOU WERE LIGHTING THE PIPE.
A NO, WE DIDN'T STAND STILL WHEN WE LIT THE PIPE.
Q DID YOU STAND IN ONE POSITION WITH YOUR BACK AGAINST THE WALL?
A WE KIND OF MOVED AROUND.
Q THE GENERAL POSTION WAS LEANING AGAINST THE WALL?
A YES.
Q AS A MATTER OF FACT YOU DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO SPEECHES?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU WENT UP THERE TO ATTEND THE MEETING, YOU MET YOUR FRIEND AND TALKED ABOUT SHOP MATTERS, AND STOOD IN THE ALLEY BY THE CORNER?
A YES.
Q I UNDERSTAND YOU FREQUENTLY DID MOVE ABOUT AND TURN AROUND AND LOOKED AT THE WAGON?
A YES SIR.
Q WHEN YOU SAW THE FACE OF THE SPEAKERS THEY WERE FACING SOUTHWARD?
A YES SIR.
Q NOW, DID THOSE SPEAKERS STAND WITH THEIR FACES TO THE SOUTH, OR WERE THEY LIKE YOU AND MR. ALBRIGHT MOVING ABOUT ON THE WAGON?
A THEY WERE MOVING ABOUT.
Q WERE YOU EVER A WITNESS BEFORE?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU WERE NEVER ON THE STAND AS A WITNESS BEFORE?
A NO SIR.
Q MR. GRINNELL ASKED YOU WHETHER IT WAS TEN FEET OR FORTY FEET FROM YOU TO THE SPEAKERS--- I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW ---GIVE US YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT WHETHER IT WAS TEN FEET OR FORTY FEET OR ONE HUNDRED OR ONE THOUSAND FEET--GIVE US AN INTELLIGENT GUESS?
A IT MIGHT BE ABOUT TWELVE FOOT FROM WHERE I STOOD.
Q THAT IS YOUR BEST GUESS?
A THAT IS MY BEST GUESS.
Q YOU DON'T PRETEND TO SAY YOU KNOW?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU WOULD NOT SAY IT WAS FORTY FEET?
A NO SIR.
A IN REGARD TO THIS LAMP POST--- DO I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY THAT YOU WORKED IN THAT LOCALITY OR NEAR THERE FOR TEN YEARS? A
A YES SIR.
Q WHO DID YOU WORK FOR THROUGH THOSE TEN YEARS?
A FOR TOBEY.
Q TOBEY THE FURNITURE MAN?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE IS MR. TOBEY'S FACTORY?
A HE HASN'T GOT ANY FACTORY NOW.
Q WHERE WAS IT AT THAT TIME?
A CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND JEFFERSON STREETS.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU WORK FOR MR. TOBEY?
A SOMEWHERES AROUND TEN YEARS.
A ABOUT TEN YEARS FOR TOBEY CONSTANTLY?
A NO SIR, THERE WAS ANOTHER FIRM IN THERE.
Q WHO WAS IT?
A MR. THAYER.
Q THEN IT CHANGED TO MR. TOBEY?
A THEY BOTH WERE IN COMPANY.
MR. BLACK: THAYER AND TOBEY.
MR. FOSTER: Q BUT YOU WORKED CONTINUOUSLY RIGHT ALONG IN THE SAME SHOP UNDER THE SAME EMPLOYMENT FOR ABOUT THE YEARS?
A THERE WAS ANOTHER FIRM COME IN THERE THAT I WORKED FOR AFTER THAT FIRM.
Q WHO IS THAT?
A HILDRETH.
Q YOU CONTINUED RIGHT ALONG THEN FOR THE THAYER MANUFACTURING COMPANY AND HILDRETH RIGHT ALONG FOR TEN YEARS?
A YES SIR, FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS.
Q DID YOU GO THEN DIRECTLY TO WORK FOR KIMBALL?
A I WORKED FOR BOOTH AND OSGOOD THEN.
Q HOW LONG DID YOU WORK FOR THEM?
A ABOUT TWO MONTHS.
Q DURING THE TEN YEARS YOU WERE WORKING THERE IN THIS FACTORY WHERE DID YOU COME WITH REFERENCE TO THE LAMP POST ON THE CORNER OF THE ALLEY?
A I HAD TO PASS BY THERE EVERY MORNING AND NIGHT.
Q IN THE WINTER TIME, DURING THE WINTER SEASON THAT IT USED TO BE LIGHTED WHEN YOU WENT HOME AT NIGHT?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU REMEMBERED IT FROM THAT FACT?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU HAVE NOW, I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY TO MR. GRINNELL, NO DISTINCT RECOLLECTION WHETHER IT WAS LIGHTED THAT NIGHT OR NOT?
A I COULDN'T TELL, NO.
Q NOW, I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER THAT IS LIKE THE NOTICE THAT YOU SAW, ACTING UPON YOU WHICH YOU CALLED AT SALOMON AND ZEISLER'S?
|SHOWS WITNESS COPY OF THE FACKEL|.
A YES, I THINK IT WAS LIKE THAT.
MR. FOSTER: |TO THE INTERPRETER.| WILL YOU INTERPRET THIS NOTICE, MR. INTERPRETER?
THE INTERPRETER GAUSS: |READS| "TO THE PUBLIC. ALL THOSE WHO CAN SAY ANYTHING IN FAVOR OF THOSE WHO ARE MADE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HAYMARKET AFFAIR ON TUESDAY EVENING THE 4TH OF MAY ON THE PART OF THE COUNSEL FOR THE STATE, ARE REQUESTED URGENTLY TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE COUNSEL OF THE DEFENDANTS MESSRS, SALOMON & ZEISLER, OF 116 LA SALLE STREET, FOURTH FLOOR."
MR. FOSTER: THERE IS ONE PART OF THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
THE INTERPRETER: IT IS THE SENTENCE "WHOM THE STATES ATTORNEY ATTAMPTS TO MAKE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HAYMARKET AFFAIR OF TUESDAY, MAY 4TH."
THE COURT: READ IT AGAIN.
THE INTERPRETER: |READS| "TO THE PUBLIC. ALL THOSE WHO CAN SAY ANYTHING IN FAVOR OF THE PARTIES WHO BY THE STATES ATTORNEY, THE OFFICE OF THE STATE ATTORNEY, ARE MADE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HAYMARKET AFFAIR ON TUESDAY EVENING, THE 4TH OF MAY THIS YEAR, ARE URGENTLY REQUESTED TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE COUNSEL OF OF THE DEFENDANTS, MESSRS. SALOMON & ZEISLER AT 116 LA SALLE STREET, FOURTH FLOOR."
MR. FOSTER: Q YOU HAVE HEARD WHAT THE GENTLEMAN READ?
A YES SIR.
Q THAT WAS THE NOTICE OR CALL LIKE THAT THAT CAUSED YOU TO GO
ON ACCOUNT OF WHAT YOU HAD SEEN?
A YES SIR.
Q I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY IN ANSWER TO MR. GRINNELL THAT YOU HAD WORKED THAT DAY, YOU HAD WORKED THE 4TH OF MAY?
A YES.
Q HOW MANY HOURS DID YOU WORK?
A EIGHT HOURS.
Q THEN AFTER WORKING, GOING HOME AND GETTING YOUR SUPPER, YOU HAD WALKED ALL THE WAY?
A YES SIR.
Q HOW FAR IS IT FROM WHERE YOU WORKED TO THE HAYMARKET MEETING, ABOUT, IN MILES?
A I COULDN'T TELL HOW MANY MILES.
Q ABOUT HOW MANY MILES, HOW FAR IS IT FROM WHERE YOU WORK DOWN TO WHERE YOU LIVE, AND THEN HOW FAR FROM THERE DOWN TO THE HAYMARKET?
A I CAN FROM THE SHOP DOWN HOME IN TWENTY MINUTES.
Q IN TWENTY MINUTES?
A YES SIR.
Q THEN HOW FAR WAS IT FROM THERE DOWN TOWN, OR HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO WALK?
THE COURT: Q HOW MANY MINUTES WALK FROM YOUR HOUSE TO THE CORNER OF RANDOLPH AND DESPLAINES STREET?
A I COULDN'T TELL HOW MANY MINUTES IT TAKES ME.
MR. FOSTER Q IS IT THREE OR FOUR MILES FROM THE FACTORY DOWN TO THE HAYMARKET?
A YES, IT IS ABOUT FOUR MILES.
Q YOU SAY YOU RUN A SAW, I BELIEVE?
A YES.
Q DO YOU SIT DOWN TO IT OR STAND UP?
A STAND UP.
Q YOUR LABOR IN THE SHOP REQUIRES YOU TO STAND TO WORK?
A YES SIR.
Q YOU HAD BEEN STANDING THERE EIGHT HOURS ALL DAY, AND WALKED
ABOUT FOUR MILES?
A YES.
Q WHILE YOU WERE AT THE MEETING THERE YOU LEANED SOME IN THE ALLEY AGAINST THE BRICK WALL?
A YES.
MR. GRINNELL: Q YOU WORKED TEN YEARS AT THE CORNER OF JEFFERSON AND RANDOLPH STREETS?
A YES SIR.
Q NOW, WHERE DID YOU LIVE DURING THAT TEN YEARS?
A FIVE YEARS I LIVED OVER ON THE NORTHWEST SIDE.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE NORTHWEST SIDE--- MILWAUKEE AVENUE?
A YES.
Q WHICH PART OF THAT TEN YEARS DID YOU LIVE THERE, THE FIRST PART OF THE TEN YEARS OR THE LAST PART?
A THE FIRST.
Q WHERE DID YOU LIVE THE OTHER FIVE YEARS, THERE ON THE NORTH SIDE?
A THE NORTH SIDE.
Q ON SEDGWICK STREET?
A YES SIR.
Q WHERE DID YOU LIVE ON MILWAUKEE AVENUE?
A AUGUSTA STREET.
Q WHAT NUMBER?
A 60
Q WHERE DOES AUGUSTA STREET STRIKE MILWAUKEE AVENUE?
A IT RUNS RIGHT ACROSS MILWAUKEE.
Q WHERE, HOW FAR NORTH?
THE COURT: Q IS IT BEYOND CHICAGO AVENUE?
A IT IS A GOOD WAYS DOWN WILWAUKEE AVENUE.
MR. GRINNELL: Q YOU SAY YOU LEFT YOUR WIFE A YEAR AGO?
A YES.
Q BEFORE THAT DID YOU WORK A WHOLE YEAR?
A I WORKED A WHOLE YEAR, AND LIVED ON THE NORTH SIDE.
Q YOU WORKED EVERY DAY DURING THAT YEAR?
A I DON'T KNOW WHETHER EVERY DAY---I WAS SICK.
Q A YEAR AGO WOULD BE LAST SUMMER, WOULD BE 1885---WHERE WERE YOU LAST JULY, 1885?
A I WAS ARRESTED.
Q FOR LICKING YOUR WIFE?
A NO SIR.
Q WHERE WERE YOU---I DON'T ASK ABOUT TOUR BEING ARRESTED---WHERE WERE YOU?
A I WAS IN THE CITY. I WAS DOWN ON CLARK STREET, I GUESS.
Q WHEREABOUTS?
A NEAR THE COURT HOUSE.
Q HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE?
A I COULDN'T TELL-- I DON'T RECOLLECT.
Q WERE YOU WORKING?
A NOT THAT DAY.
Q WAS IT ONLY ONE DAY THAT YOU WERE THERE?
A ON CLARK STREET?
Q YES SIR.
A THAT WAS THAT SAME DAY.
Q WHAT DAY WAS THAT?
A I COULDN'T TELL.
Q WHAT MONTH WAS IT?
A I DON'T RECOLLECT.
Q WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?
A LAST YEAR.
Q WHAT TIME LAST YEAR---WAS IT EARLIER IN THE YEAR THAN THIS--- THIS IS AUGUST?
A IT WAS IN JULY.
Q WHERE WERE YOU IN THE MONTH OF JULY?
A IN THE SHOP.
Q ALL THE TIME EXCEPT ONE DAY?
A NO, I WAS OFF A WEEK.
Q WHERE?
A I TOLD YOU.
Q WHERE?
A I WAS OUT IN BRIDEWELL.
MR. FOSTER: Q YOU WERE ARRESTED?
A YES SIR.
Q WHAT FOR?
A I BOUGHT A REVOLVER ON THE 3RD OF JULY.
Q WHAT ABOUT IT, TELL US ABOUT IT?
A I WAS GOING TO HAVE SOME SHOOTING ON THE 4TH, ME AND ANOTHER FELLOW WENT DOWN IN A SALOON, AND I PULLED IT OUT AND I GOT ARRESTED.
Q YOU GOT ARRESTED FOR PULLING YOUR REVOLVER OUT AND SHOWING IT TO A FRIEND?
A YES.
Q THEN THEY SENT YOU TO BRIDEWELL FOR A WEEK?
A IT WASN'T QUITE A WEEK.
Q PRETTY NEAR A WEEK?
A YES SIR.
MR. FOSTER: THAT IS A GOOD REASON WHY YOU COULDN'T TELL THE TRUTH.
MR. GRINNELL: Q DO YOU KNOW THIS OFFICER HERE---DID YOU EVER SEE HIM BEFORE INDICATING?
A I DON'T THINK I DID.
Q WASN'T HE THE MAN THAT ARRESTED YOU?
A NO SIR.
Q WERE YOU NOT SENT TO THE BRIDEWELL FOR THRASHING YOUR WIFE AND THREATENING HER LIFE WITH A PISTOL?
A NO SIR.
Q NEVER?
A NO SIR.
Q YOU NEVER THREATENED HER AND NEVER WERE ARRESTED FOR THAT --- IS THAT TRUE?
MR. FOSTER: WAIT A MINUTE.
THE COURT: AS TO MARITAL TROUBLES, THERE HAS BEEN NO FOUNDATION FOR THAT.
MR. GRINNELL: I WANTED TO FIND OUT IF THAT WAS THE REASON HE WAS SENT TO THE BRIDEWELL.
THE COURT: YOU ASKED HIM IF HE WAS EVER ARRESTED FOR THAT.
MR. GRINNELL: I DIDN'T MEAN TO MAKE IT SO GENERAL AS THAT. I MEANT TO ASK HIM THE QUESTION OR NOT THAT WAS THE REASON HE WAS SENT TO THE BRIDEWELL, FOR THREATENING HIS WIFE.
MR. FOSTER: HE SAYS NO, AND I AM TRYING TO ASK THE COURT A QUESTION AS TO WHAT KIND OF CONVICTION IS SUCH A CONVICTION AS CAN BE PROVED TO CAST A REFLECTION ON A WITNESS.
THE COURT: THAT IS NOT A PROPER QUESTION, BECAUSE THEIR INQUIRY ELICTED THAT REPLY THAT HE WAS IN THE BRIDEWELL, AND THEN YOUR INQUIRY AS TO WHAT THE CAUSE WAS, WAS MADE WITHOUT ANY QUESTION BEING PUT TO THE COURT. BOTH SIDES HAVING GONE INTO THE QUESTION THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO THE WHOLE OF IT.
MR. FOSTER: SOME TIMES VERY GOOD MEN HAVE VERY BAD WIVES.
MR. GRINNELL: I PRESUME THIS IS ONE OF THOSE CASES.
THE COURT: IS THAT ALL FROM THIS WITNESS?
MR. GRINNELL: THAT IS ALL.