Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Mr. Foster. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Testified as to Harry Gilmer's general reputation for truth and veracity. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Gilmer, Harry (vol.N 197).
Testimony of Benjamin F. Knowles, 1886 Aug. 10.
Volume N, 197-202, 6 p.
Knowles, Benjamin F.
Clothing store clerk.
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[Image, Volume N, Page 197]
BENJAMIN F. KNOWLES,
a witness called and sworn on behalf of the People, was examined in chief by Mr. Grinnell, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name?
A. Benjamin F. Knowles.
Q. Where do you live?
A. 245 1-2 Walnut Street.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am a clerk in a clothing store.
Q. Where?
A. 250 West Madison Street.
Q. For whom?
A. Mr. Levason.
Q. How long have you lived in Chicago?
A. Forty years. the 4th day of October.
Q. How old are you?
A. I will be forty years the 4th day of October.
Q. Were you in the arny during the rebellion?
A. All through it.
Q. Do you know Harry L. Gilmer?
A. I do.
Q. How long have you known him?
A. About six years.
Q. Do you know his reputation for truth and veracity among his acquaintances in the city of Chicago?
A. I have never heard it questioned.
Q. Answer the question yes or no -- do you know his reputation for truth and veracity among his associates and acquaintances in the city of Chicago, -- yes or no.
A. I don't know just how to answer that. I could answer it.
Q. Either you do know it or you don't know it.
A. As far as I am personally concerned, yes.
Q. Do you know his reputation for truth and veracity among his associates in the city of Chicago?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it good or bad?
A. Never have heard it questioned.
Q. Is it good or bad?
A. It is good.
Q. Would you believe him under oath?
A. Yes sir.
CROSS EXAMINATION,
By Mr. Foster.
Q. Will you tell me who his associates are -- that is I mean about where he lives, where he resides?
A. I can't answer that -- I don't know. I don't know where he lives.
Q. Did you never know where he lived?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ask him where he lived?
A. No sir.
Q. Where did you meet him?
A. At the Battery.
Q. As I understand you enlist in the Battery for five years don't you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And met how often?
A. We used to meet once a week and twice a week.
Q. At the regular meeting time?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When you would meet there was it in the evening always?
A. Always.
Q. Always in the evening?
A. When we used to go out for the drill, we used to go in the afternoon.
Q. When you met in the afternoon it was to go out for a drill?
A. For a drill.
Q. Your general meetings were in the evening?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What would you do when you would meet there once a week?
A. We would drill the same as any Battery, and go through the manoeuvres.
Q. What time did the drills begin?
A. Half past seven o'clock.
Q. Would you try to get there by half past seven?
A. Yes.
Q. How long would you drill?
A. Ten or half past ten.
Q. Then what did you do?
A. Separated and went home.
Q. Always leave immediately?
A. Not always. We sometimes would hold consultations, kind of stop and talk over old times -- we stayed there and talked.
Q. You had a social time, the same as any person would have after any meeting?
A. Yes sir, that is it.
Q. That is your acquaintance with Harry L. Gilmer?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever work in the same store?
A. No sir.
Q. Are you a painter?
A. I am a painter, but I never worked with him.
Q. Who was it applied to you for your testimony?
A. Mr. Gilmer.
Q. He went to the old Battery D boys?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you a married man?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you ever entertain him at your house?
A. Never.
Q. Did you ever attend any social, any place of amusement with him, ever go to the theatre with him?
A. Not that I remember
of.
Q. Nothing of that kind?
A. No sir.
Q. You never knew where he lived?
A. No sir.
Q. Never knew who he lived with?
A. No sir.
Q. You didn't know whether he had a wife, or whether he had a mistress or whether he was a bachelor?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever ask him whether he was married or not?
A. No sir.
Q. Never had any talk with him -- you didn't know him well enough to know whether he was married or not, or whether he had a family or not?
A. My line of business did not fetch his family in connection with our transactions.
Q. Did you line of business connect you with the inquiry as to his reputation for truth and veracity among these with whom he lived, and about the neighborhood in which he lived?
A. The only question of his veracity was with my dealing with him. So long as he was honest with me I didn't step outside to inquire.
Q. You don't know what others said about him?
A. No sir.
Q. You don't pretend to know what his reputation was with others?
A. Only in the battery -- I know it was good there.
Q. You know as a member of Battery D he drilled with the boys?
A. Yes, and he was thought a good deal of.
Q. A peculiar acquaintance, an old fellow, something funny
about him?
A. Not really funny, maybe a little bit.
Q. Something rather peculiar about him?
A. Yes, a little marked, possibly.
Q. A very little bit?
A. Yes.
Q. You say you never knew what others said about him, but you judged his reputation for truth of your own personal transactions with him?
A. Only my connection with him in the Battery -- his dealings with me.
Q. Were you an officer in the battery?
A. I was high private.
Q. You were not as high a private as Gilmer?
A. No sir, he is about seven inches taller than I am, I think.
Q. He over ranked you?
A. Yes, he could look down on me.
Q. You say you never knew whether he was a man of family or not, and never knew where he lived?
A. No sir.
Q. You never had any reason for inquiring as to whether he was a truthful man or not?
A. Not a particle.
Q. And never inquired whether he was truthful?
A. Not a particle.
Q. Never said he was truthful?
A. Never, nor did anybody say he was not.
Q. I asked you whether you ever heard any one say he was?
A. The question was never raised.
Q. It was not important to be raised?
A. No.
Q. You don't go into a man's pedigree when he makes application
to join the battery, do you?
A. No sir.