Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct examination by Mr. Grinnell. Cross-examination by Mr. Foster. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Testified as to Harry Gilmer's general reputation for truth and veracity. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Gilmer, Harry (vol.N 181).
Testimony of Charles A. Dibble, 1886 Aug. 10.
Volume N, 181-186, 6 p.
Dibble, Charles A.
Attorney.
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[Image, Volume N, Page 181]
CHARLES A. DIBBLE,
a witness called and sworn on behalf of the People, was examined in chief by Mr. Grinnell, and testified as follows:
Q. What is your name?
A. Charles A. Dibble.
Q. What is your business?
A. Lawyer.
Q. How long have you lived in Chicago?
A. Since 1871.
Q. You were in the army?
A. Yes sir.
Q. During the rebellion?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know Harry L. Gilmer?
A. I do.
Q. How long have you known him?
A. Well, five years and upwards -- more than five years.
Q. In the city of Chicago?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Do you know his reputation for truth and veracity among his associates and acquaintances in the city of Chicago?
A. I do.
Q. Is it good or bad?
A. It is good.
Q. Would you believe him under oath?
A. I would.
CROSS EXAMINATION
By Mr. Foster.
Q. Who are his associates now?
A. Well, in one sense of the word he has about sixteen or seventeen hundred.
Q. Who are his associates?
A. I am trying to answer the question. I am trying to identify them.
Q. I want the names of his associates now.
A. I am one of them. John L. is one, Col. Sexton is one,
Thomas Sexton is one and Richard Tuthill, is one.
Q. That is the witness just on the stand?
A. Yes.
Q. I don't know about that. Do you know Mrs. Holt?
A. No, sir, I do not.
Q. A woman that is said to have lived with him for some time?
A. I do not.
Q. You don't know all his associates then perhaps?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Where did Mr. Gilmer live on the 1st of May last?
A. I don't know.
Q. Where does he live now?
A. I don't know, I expect in the city of Chicago.
Q. Where did he live last January?
A. I don't know what particular locality.
Q. Where did he live last July?
A. I don't know.
Q. Where has he lived any time in the last three years?
A. I think within three years he lived in the west division of the city. I think he lives in the west division now.
Q. Where do you live?
A. In the west division.
Q. Where do you live?
A. lll So Leavitt Street.
Q. Where did he live?
A. I think he lived within a mile and a half of that, this way.
Q. Did you ever entertain him at your house?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever visit him at his respective rooms, dens, we will say, his places of abode then?
A. I think to one of
those questions I will answer -- he belongs to an association and I see him -- I belong to that association. We entertain together there, I will say that.
Q. Wait a moment, I don't think you have been paid for a speech and object to one going into the record.
MR. BLACK: I move that that be stricken out as not responsive to the question asked.
THE COURT: I think you have asked whether he knew any of his associates, and you got the names of some.
MR. BLACK: Our question was as to whether he ever entertained him at his house.
THE COURT: Strike it out.
MR. FOSTER: Q. Did you ever go to the theatre with him, or to any place of amusement in his company?
A. Oh, I have been to picnics where he has been.
Q. Where?
A. At Silver Grove, and I think while my wife was with me.
Q. Did you introduce your wife to Mr. Gilmer?
A. I don't think I did. I think not.
Q. Or any member of your family?
A. I don't think I ever did.
Q. Did you ever introduce any lady to him?
A. I think not.
Q. What kind of a picnic was that?
A. I think it was our Veteran's picnic -- I think he was there.
Q. That was open to anybody, a public picnic, anybody could
go?
A. It was a society picnic -- others have attended it.
Q. Is he a member of the society?
A. He is a member of the Union Veteran Club.
Q. You know him simply as a club member?
A. Not simply that. I know him more that way than any other.
Q. Henry Mason, do you know him?
A. I presume I would know his face -- I don't remember him now from name --
Q. I want to know whether he was also a member -- do you know personally all the members?
A. I don't know their names personally. Their names are registered in the books.
Q. You have meetings and see these men there?
A. We have monthly meetings, sometimes special meetings.
Q. Do you know that gentleman, the old gentleman there between the two children?
A. I have seen the old gentleman, yes, I know his face.
Q. Is he a member also of that, Edward H. Castle?
A. I don't know.
Q. What is the society?
A. Chicago Union Veteran Club.
Q. What is the number of members?
A. Upwards of sixteen or seventeen hundred.
Q. Mr. Gilmer is a member of that club?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Is he now a member of the club?
A. I think he is.
Q. What constitutes membership in the club? Was this old gentleman a member of the club, whose face I showed you?
A. Shall I answer the question?
Q. Was this old gentleman a member of that club?
A. I have answered I don't know.
Q. So your acquaintance with Gilmer principally, I suppose is through seeing him in the club?
A. I think it was made through that more than otherwise.
Q. More than anything else?
A. Yes.
Q. That club consists of a membership of sixteen or seventeen hundred?
A Sixteen or seventeen hundred.
Q. As a matter of fact it is not true that you ever associated with him in any intimate relations or relationship?
A. Mr. Gilmer is not one of our family friends, not one of my family associates, that I know of.
Q. Have you ever heard any one say that his reputation for truth and veracity was good?
A. I never heard his reputation for truth and veracity questioned.
Q. You are a lawyer -- answer the question.
THE COURT: Q. The question is whether you ever heard anything said about it.
MR. FOSTER: That is not my question. My question is. Have you ever heard any man say that his reputation for truth and veracity was good?
A. I don't know that I have in so many words.
Q. Do you know how many different places he has lived in Chicago?
A. No sir, I do not.
Q. Did you ever hear of his being in the Cook County jail?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever hear of his being arrested in Cedar Rapids, Iowa?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you ever hear of his having a wife in Wisconsin and one in Chicago?
A. No sir.
Q. You never heard anything about that?
A. No sir.
Q. Then you never tried to trace up his family genealogy or his character?
A. I never made any special effort in that direction.
Q. Did you see an article printed in the Chicago Tribune, about a year ago referring to Mr. Gilmer?
A. No sir, I don't think that I did.
Q. You don't remember of seeing anything about his attempt to seduce a young girl, and his expulsion from the society on account of it?
Objected to.
A. No sir, I don't remember of reading any such thing or seeing any such thing.
MR. GRINNELL: If it was true or pertaining to this issue, they would have proven it long ago.
MR. BLACK: The court shut out every inquiry, except as to general reputation for truth and veracity. Your statement that we would have proven it long ago is not a correct statement.
THE COURT: It is not proper here.