Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1 Direct and re-direct examination by Mr. Foster. Cross and re-Cross-examination by Mr. Grinnell. Testified on behalf of the Defense, Spies, August et al. Stood directly behind the man who threw the bomb at Haymarket. Met with the prosecution and when shown Schnaubelt's picture said that he was not the bomb-thrower. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): Captain Ward's command to disperse (vol.M 493), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.M 494), trajectory of the bomb (vol.M 491), identification of the bomb-thrower (vol.M 491), time and place origination of the gunfire (vol.M 494), medical care and wounds (vol.M 494), Spies, August (vol.M 493), Parsons, Albert (vol.M 493), Fielden, Samuel (vol.M 493), Schnaubelt, Rudolph (vol.M 492).
Testimony of John Bernett, 1886 Aug. 7.
Volume M, 489-501, 13 p.
Bernett, John.
Candy-maker.
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[Image, Volume M, Page 489]
a witness called on behalf of the defendants, was duly sworn and testified as follows.
Q- What is your name?
A- John Bernett.
Q- Where do you live?
A- 94 South Desplaines.
Q- How long have you resided in Chicago?
A- One year and three months.
Q- What is your business?
A- Candy Maker.
Q- Are you acquainted with the defendants here any of them?
A- Oh, I saw them a couple of times on the Lake Front.
Q- What ones of them did you see on the Lake Front?
A- Mr. Parsons and Mr. Spies and Fielden.
Q- Are they the only ones that you are acquainted with of the defendants?
A- That is all.
Q- Are you a socialist?
A- No sir.
Q- Communist or an anarchist?
A- No sir.
Q- Are you acquainted with Mr. Grinnell and Mr. Furthman?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You have conversed with them about this case?
Q- Did you know them before the first of May?
A- No sir.
Q- I will ask you whe-ther you were at the Haymarket meeting?
A- I was.
Q- Were you there at the time the bomb exploded?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Whereabouts did you stand with reference to Crane's Alley when the bomb exploded?
A- I think it was about 38 feet from the alley south.
Q- Have you made a careful examination there to find out about how many feet?
A- Yes sir.
Q- When did you do that?
A- I guess it was last Wednesday. I thought if I come up here for a witness I better go down to---
Q- And look it over?
A- Yes sir, and see.
Q- I will ask you if you saw the bomb in the air?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Did you see the man who threw it?
A- I did.
Q- How near was he to you?
A- He was right in front of me.
Q- What kind of a motion did he make how did he throw it?
A- He just took the bomb like this and threw it up (Illustrating)
Q- In which direction did the bomb go when he threw it?
A- A litte bit north.
Q- Do you mean north of West or north, or how, which way--- do you mean north or west or northwest?
A- He throwed it right this way (indicating) a little bit north, that (indicating) is Desplaines street, the next is Randolph (indicating) and he throwed this way. (Indicating).
Q- That is he threw it northwest from where he was did he?
The Court: Let the witness describe.
MR. Foster: Will you give us Mr. Schnaubelt's picture, if you please, and we want our map or yours.
The Court; That the bomb was thrown across the street you all agree, now, was it north or south of west that it was throws across, or straght across, west?
A- No, not straight west, a little bit north.
Mr. Foster (q) Then it was Nosthwest that he threw the bomb?
A- Yes,
sir.
Q- More west than north but a little north of west?
A- Yes sir.
Q- What kind of a looking man was he so far as you observed him?
The Court: (q) What kind of a looking man was he?
A- I guess he was about my size, may be a little bit bigger, and I think he had a moustache.
Mr. Foster (q) Now, I will ask you whether he had or had not a chin beard?
A- I guess not.
Q- How were his clothes, as to being light or dark.
The Court (Q) What colored clothes?
A- I think they were dark.
Mr. Foster (Q) Did you ever see that picture before? (Handing witness photograph of Schnaubelt?)
A- Yes sir, Mr. Furthman showed me this before.
Q- When did Furthman show you that picture?
A- I don't know about two weeks ago.
Q- I will ask you if you recognize that as being the man whom threw the bomb?
A- I guess not.
Q- Did you tell Mr. Furthman so at the time?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You never could recognize anybody could you?
A- No sir.
Q- You told Captain Schaack and you have told me that the man who threw it was in front of you?
A- Yes sir.
Q- But his back was towards you and you could not tell how he did look?
A- No sir, I could not tell.
Q- Now, at the time the meeting began where were you?-- Where were you when the speaking began, Bernett?
A- When I came up they were speaking already.
Q- Who was speaking?
A- Mr. Spies.
Q- Who followed Spies?
A- I think Mr. Parsons.
Q- Parsons followed-- did you listen to him through? too?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Then did you hear Fielden?
A- I did.
Q- Where were you standing when the police came up first, with reference to the alley and whereabouts-- whereabouts were you in reference to the alley?
A- Right in the middle of the alley.
Q- Now, when the police came up what did you hear Fielden say?
A- I can't remember now, he was speaking on and the police came up
Q- The police came up, but what did he say, did he say "Stand"?
A- No sir, not then.
Q- When did he say that?
A- I heard that when the captain of the police ordered them to leave that place, I heard somebody
say "Stand". don't run."
Q- Somebody said "Stand, Don't run"?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Now, when the police captain came up there and ordered them to disperse, what did the people around the wagon say, they would or would not?
A- There was about, in the middle of the street, west side of the wagon, about three of four hollered out"No, we wont do it".
Q- Did they holler in German or English?
A- In English.
Q- When the police came up and when Fielden was on the wagon did you hear Fielden say anything to the officer who spoke to him--what did Fielden say?
A- Yes sir, he said something but I could not hear it.
Q- You were in the alley?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And the crowd began to rush?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And they rushed you?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you got shot,
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you hurried out as fast as you could?
A- Yes sir, I got shot and fell on the sidewalk.
Q- And you now think that this bomb was fired 38 feet south of the alley, is that right?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Did'nt you tell Mr. Furthman that you thought it was about 15 feet?
A- 15 steps.
Q- That would be 35 feet, about that?
A- I count my steps about two feet and a half.
Q- Did'nt it come right from behind the boxes-- do you remember
those boxes there?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Did'nt it come right from behind those boxes there?
A- I guess not.
Q- 38 feet you think?
A-, Yes sir.
Q- Now, how far were you from the corner of Randolph street when you saw this hand go up into the air?
A- (Witness examines memorandum book).
Q- What have you got there, Bernett?
A- A book. From the place the bomb was thrown up to the other corner--- the house goes up a little further on the other side, you know-- 45 feet.
Q- From the place where the bomb was thrown to the corner of the alley, 45 feet?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Then the bomb was thrown 45 feet south of the corner of the alley?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Have'nt you always told the officers, Mr. Bonfield, Mr. Furthman and myself that in your opinion that bomb was thrown from behind the boxes?
A- I think the boxes were here like this table, and I think--
Q- Take your seat and we will find out about that. How far were the boxes south of the alley, not how far were they when you were over there to measure, but how far were they that night?
A- I can't remember.
Q- They were not over five or six feet south of the corner.
There was a lamp post and then the boxes came?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You told Bonfield about this a few days after this, on the 7th. did'nt you?
A- There was no boxes in front of him---
Q- Hold on a minute. Do you remember Officer Bonfield. This man (INdicating).
A- Yes sir.
Q- This large man here, that is Bonfield?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Do you remember of your coming into the central station with your arm done up and talking to him?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Now, did'nt you tell Officer Bonfield then in my presence, on the 7th. of May, that that bomb was thrown from behind the boxes? Is'nt that what you said at that time?
A- Well, I don't know, but I think I am right now.
Q- I understand, you have been going further south ever since.
Mr. Black: Are you testifying, Mr. Grinnell?
Mr. Grinnell: (Q) Did'nt you tell Mr. Bonfield and Furthman also after you had said that it was thrown from behind the boxes that it was thrown from some place south of the boxes-- first you said it was thrown from behind the boxes, that was your impresssion-- was'nt that so--- did'nt you say so, yes or no?
A- I guess not.
Q- Did'nt you then state afterwards, some weeks ago, state to us in the office, that it was thrown some 20 or 25 feet
south of the alley, did'nt you state that again?
A- I never told you before how many feet.
Q- Did'nt you ever tell us at all how many feet before until today now, right here?
A- Yes did.
Q- How many feet did you state?
A- I can't remember now. but I think I have got it right now.
Q- Now, on the 7th. of May you were brought over here by Officer Bonfield--- were you not brought over here into the court room?
A- I guess so.
Q- And another officer, Loius Haas?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And were not the defendants, or some of them brought into the court, brought into the room so that you could see them?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You were asked if you had ever seen them before?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And what was your answer?
A- I told you yes.
Q- Did'nt you say that you had never seen them before?
A- I told you I saw them before. May be you mean my partner.
Q-, Which one did you say you had seen before?
A- I saw them all before on the lake front and the Haymarket.
Q- Did you ever talk with Captain Schaak about this matter?
A- I did.
Q- Did you tell captain Schaack that you never could identify the man who threw that bomb, could'nt describe him and could not indentify Him?
Mr. Balck: Is that material?
Mr. Grinnell (Q) Did you tell Captain Schaack that you could not describe the man and would not know him if you saw him?
A- I did.
Q- And you told him also as you told Bonfield, that the man's back was towards you?
A- Yes sir.
Q- At the time that you had this talk with Schaack when was it?
A- Oh, I was several times up to Chicago Avenue station.
Q- Did you tell Captain Schaack at that time that it was a man a little larger than you with you with dark clothes?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You gave the same description to Captain Schaack there that you give now?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You told him that he had a moustache and no chin whiskers?
A- Yes sir, I think he had a moustache.
Q- You think he had a moustache but no chin whiskers?
A- Yes sir
Q- You have said so all the time?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You say that about this time that you told him what distance it was south of the alley, you had not then measured it, since then last Wednesday of this week when you found you were to be a witness you went down and measured it, did'nt you?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And that is what you have got in that little book?
A- Yes sir.
Q- As you measured it you put the figures down in the book?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And now that you know where you were and from the measurements you made this week you find it was 38 feet south of the alley?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And this 45 feet that you spoke about--- what is that 45 feet there, is that from the building north of the alley?
A- No, that is the place when you go south up to Randolph street, to the corjner of that house.
Q- From the corner of Randolph Street up to Crane's Alley is 45--
A- No
Q- Up to where you stood?
A- Yes sir.
Q- From the corner of Randolph the distance up, to where you stood is 45 feet, and from where you stood up to Crane's alley is 38 feet?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you have got the figures on the book there where you measured?
A- Yes sir.
Q- At the time the men were brought in for you to look at were eight men brought, or how many were brought in?
A- Four men.
Q- And that was Spies, Fielden, Parsons and Schwab, was'nt it?
A- No, not Parsons, it was Fischer.
Q- Fischer was brought in and Spies was brought in and Schwab
was brought in?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And Fielden was brought in?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you told them there that you did know these men, that you saw them on the lake front?
A- Yes sir.
Q- How is it about the partner, did you have a partner here at that time?--- was there a man with you that you called your partner?
A- Yes sir.
Q- You heard them talk to your partner?
A- Yes sir.
Q-, You said a minute in response to Mr. Grinnell's questions that perhaps it was your partner. There was only four men brought in?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you knew them all?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you told them that you knew them all?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And you did'nt identify any of them as the man that threw the bomb?
A- No sir.
Q- Now, as you saw this notion of throwing, did you see any fire right from the hand?
A- Yes sir.
Q- Did you follow that fire with your eye?
A- Yes sir, I looked at it.
Q- It went and you saw it light where the bomb exploded?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And that you told the officers on the 7th. of May or very soon after?
A- I guess so.
Q- And you heard the explosion when it went off and you saw the flash of the bomb?
A- Yes sir.
Q- And then ran away?
A- Yes sir.
Q- As soon as you saw the bomb thrown you ran did you?
A- Yes sir, I started to run.
Q- Why?
A- I did'nt want to get killed, there was too many---
Q- Did you know it was a bomb when you saw it in the air--- did you know it was a bomb?
MR. FOSTER;- What is your hight?
A- I don't know.
Q- Stand up and see. (Witness stands up).