Illinois vs. August Spies et al. trial transcript no. 1. Direct examination by Mr. Ingham. Cross-examination by Captain Black. Testified on behalf of the Prosecution, People of the State of Illinois. Confiscated a blast furnace from George Engel's home three days after the Haymarket meeting. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): bombs (vol.K 500), items confiscated from the Arbeiter-Zeitung office or the defendants' homes (vol.K 499), Engel, George (vol.K 498), People's Exhibit 133 a&b (vol.K 498). MARTIN QUINN, recalled by the people was examined in chief by Mr. Ingham and testified as follows: Q What is your name? A Martin Quinn. Q Do you know Engle? A Yes sir I know him for a short time Q Were you at his house? A I was Q How long after the Haymarket? A About three or four days after, three days after I think. Q Tell what took place there, what conversation you had with him?
Testimony of Martin Quinn (second appearance), 1886 July 28.
Volume K, 498-503, 6 p.
Quinn, Martin.
Police Lieutenant, Chicago Police Department.
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[Image, Volume K, Page 498]
A Objected to.
THE COURT: It is admissible as to himself but no evidence against others.
Defendant's counsel then and there excepted to the ruling of the court.
MR. BLACK: It seems to me that conversations after the Haymarket, even as against the defendants themselves with whom the conversations were had, should be confined to the thing itself, not general conversations, but to the charge for which they are under trial.
THE COURT: What ever any one of the defendants said after the night of the 4th is only evidence as to the person who was talking, unless some other person was present and assented assented to it.
Mr. INGHAM: Q You say you went to the house?
A Yes sir.
Q What time of day did you get there?
A Got there about six o'clock in the evening.
Q Was Engle there when you got there?
A He was not at that time.
Q How soon after you got there did he come?
A It might have been fifteen or twenty minutes.
Q Did you have any talk with him after you came?
A I did.
Q Tell what that was?
Mr. BLACK: General talk is not admissible.
Mr. INGHAM: I do not bring him up for any purpose except this talk.
Q Go on and give the conversation you had with Engle?
A I told Mr. Engle that I had come there to look around his premises, having been informed there was combustible materials bombs, etc--
Q (interrupting) Did you tell him that?
A Yes sir.
Q Tell just what you said to him.
A And that we had looked through his house, and said that this machine here was down in the basement; and he stated that it was brought there or left there by some man about four or five months previous to that time, and his wife described the man to me. She said this was left there in the basement door.
Mr. ZEISLET: What his wife said I don't think is admissible.
THE WITNESS: Mr Engle was there at the time.
Mr INGHAM: Go on and tell what was said.
THE COURT: Don't tell anything she said to you unless he was
present.
THE WITNESS: She gave a description of the man who left the machine down at her basement door. From the description Mr. Engle said he thought he knew him.
Mr. INGHAM: Q. What description did she give?
A She described him as a man with long whiskers, black whiskers and pretty tall man. That was about the same description Mr. Engle gave, said he thought it was the same man but didn't know him at that time. I didn't know what the machine was, but Mr. Engle said that he thought it was made for the purpose of making bombs, and that there was a meeting-- I asked him how he knew that-- he said there was a meeting at one time at Turner Hall where it was said, intimated that he saaw this man there, and the next thing was this machine was brought over.
Q What did he say about the man at Turner Hall?
A He said he made a speech there, talked about the manufacture of bombs, and Mr. Engle told me that he said he would not allow him to make any bombs in his place, in his basement. So the man went away. He said he didn't know where he was. I took him then up to West Chicago avenue station office and reported the matter, and had him to make a statement also to Captain Hatheway; and he sent me down to the central station with the machine and with Mr. Engle, and there the chief of police and also the inspector had a conversation with him.
Q Did the chief talk to him in German while you were present?
A Yes sir.
Q Do you understand German?
A I do not. I understand a few words.
Defendant's moved to exclude the testimony of this witness as irrelevant and immaterial. The court overruled the motion; to which ruling of the court counsel for the defendants then and there excepted.
CROSS EXAMINATION
By Mr. Black.
Q Did Mr. Engle give you any explanation as to how that machine was to be used in making bombs?
A He did not. He could not, but he thought it was for that purpose he said.
Q He said he thought it was for that purpose?
A Yes, on account of the conversation he had with this man.
Q But he didn't undertake to tell you how it could be utilized for that purpose?
A No sir.
Q Did you examine the thing especially at that time.
A I did.
Q You notice it has a hole in the bottom filled with a loosefitting sort of cover or filling?
A It is something the same as a furnace. I have seen some furnaces.
Q That thing would not hold lead of itself, would it?
A I don't suppose it would, that is if it was melted.
Q That is what I mean, melted lead?
A Yes sir.
Q No body would think, no sane man of putting lead in there
for the purpose of melting it, and having it run out at that spout, would they?
Objected to.
THE COURT: He don't undertake to describe the effect.
Mr. BLACK: Q. Did you observe it sufficiently to make up your mind whether any fire had ever been in that concern or not?
A Yes sir.
Q There had never been any fire there that you could discover?
A No sir.
Q You are sure that you found that in Engles basement?
A Yes sir.
Q He told you where to find it, did he?
A Yes sir.
Q Engle told you that he told the man whoever the man was that he was not going to let the bomb be made in his place?
A Yes sir.
Q Would not consent that he should use the bomb factory down in his basement?
A No sir.
Q How much of a house has Engle there?
A He has a store up stairs, a notion store, with cigars toys etc. In the basement this machine was there and also some peices of lead and pipe, etc.
Q You took Engle and the machine together to the central station, did you?
A Yes sir.
Q On that occasion?
A On that occasion.
Q Do you know what became of Engle afterwards?
A Yes sir, I came back home with him again.
Q Came back home with him?
A Yes, at that time.
Q That was not the occasion of his being arrested?
A No sir, not that I know of.
Mr. BLACK: That is all.