Police lieutenant at the Haymarket meeting. Testified on various topics (page numbers provide a partial guide): physical layout of the Haymarket meeting (vol.I 214), position of the defendants and others on the speakers' wagon (vol.I 205), actions of police during the Haymarket meeting (vol.I 184), Captain Ward's command to disperse (vol.I 185), Fielden's response to the police advance at Haymarket (vol.I 185), movement, position or tenor of the crowd (vol.I 186), the explosion (vol.I 190), time and place origination of the gunfire (vol.I 186), medical care and wounds (vol.I 187), Fielden, Samuel (vol.I 186).

a witness for the People, being duly sworn was examined in chief by Mr. Grinnell and testified as follows:

Q What is your name?

A Martin Quinn.

Q You are a Lieutenant on the Police Force?

A Yes sir.

Q Were you in command of any company on the night of the 4th of May last?

A I was.

Q Where was your company situated at the time the bomb was thrown?

A It was situated on the left of Lieutenant Steele.

Q It would be the left hand of the street, then?

A Yes sir.

Q You were in that position when you marched down the street?

A Yes sir.

Q How was your company with reference to arms when they were marching down the street before the bomb was thrown?

A They had their clubs in their belts, and their pistols in their pockets.

Q Lieutenant, you may from the beginning, from the time that you started out, you may state precisely what you did or heard and what you saw?

A Inspector Bonfield

gave the order to fall in and I fell in on Waldo Place. I counted off the men; I had twenty four men in the company; marched out into Desplaines street, gave the orders, "Fours, left"; marched on the right of Lieutenant Steele's Company, up Desplaines Street to within about fifty feet--

Q On which side of Lieutenant Steele's Company?

A On the left.

Q I understood you to say the right?

A And as we were within about fifty feet of where the speaker was, I heard the remark passed; "Here they come now, the Bloodhounds Do your duty, men, and I will do mine". That came from the man who was speaking at that time.

Q From what place was he speaking?

A On the wagon.

Q Well?

A We marched up, then in that order until we got directly opposite the wagon. Lieutenant Steele was on the right; Captain Ward and Inspector Bonfield were together; I heard Captain Ward tell them: "I command you in the name of the People of the State of Illinois, as an unlawful assembly, to disperse, and I call upon citizens, you and you, present, to assist me in so doing". At that moment

there was a bomb or shell, whatever it was, fired into the rear at that instant, and while Ward--when Ward had not quite finished his sentence, there was a shot fired from the wagon by the man that was speaking at that time.

Q Do you know him?

A I did not know him, that time.

Q Do you know him now?

A Well, it is Mr. Fielden.here, this man (indicating), and just as "We are peaceable", he made that remark just as he was going off of the wagon on to the sidewalk.

Q What did he say? Did he make a remark?

A He made the remark, "We are peaceable", just as he was going down, and some person had hold of his left leg, that way, (indicating), and he reached back that way (indicating), and just as he was going down he fired right where the Inspector was and Captain Ward, and Lieutenant Steele, to the right of his company, as they were right close up to the wagon. Then after that I--I had my club in my hand in marching up--I dropped the club and took my pistol and commenced firing in front. The people when they came up stopped-- they got to the north of where the speaker was speaking about eight or ten feet right to the north, and formed a line across the street in our front, and immediately when that bomb was fired, and that shot from the wagon, which came almost instantaneously at the same time, they commenced firing into our front and from the side, and then from the alley

the firing commenced. I fired myself. I had not looked back then, but kept on watching toward the front.

Q Were there any men of your company injured?

A Yes sir.

Q How many?

A There were fourteen.

Q Injured by what, with what?

MR. BLACK: If he knows.

A Some of them, they said they were injured by bullets and some by shell wounds.

MR. GRINNELL: When and where was Fielden? When did you lose sight of him? Where was he when you lost sight of him?

A Just as he got down off of the wagon, on the sidewalk.

Q There were twenty four men in your company?

A Yes sir.

Q Fourteen of whom were injured?

A Yes sir.

Q How many have died?

A There are two.

Q What are their names?

A There is Nels Hansen, and Timothy Flavin.

A JUROR: (MR. REED): I wish to ask the Lieutenant if the explosion of the shell was before or after the firing of the pistol by Mr. Fielden?

A It was almost at the same moment, the same second. It was done about, just about like that (witness claps his hands in quick succession); just about quick as that was.

THE COURT: What Mr. Reed wants to know is, whether you

can distinguish what was first?

A Well, I could not, your Honor, and I would state, also, that there was another very loud report immediately after this first explosion, a report that would be, that would sound as loud as say three ordinary shot guns fired at once, which I did not know what it was. I know it sounded louder than any ordinary gun. That is after the first report, and I told the men I supposed--

MR. GRINNELL: If you told them there, you may state it. Was it there that you told them this, or was it afterwards that you were talking about it?

A Well, I spoke about that afterwards.

Q Now, with reference to the use of the expression, or the words, "We are peaceable", by Fielden that you have testified to, when was that bomb exploded, before or after it?

A About the same instant.

Q The firing ---

A It was just about when he was getting down off of the wagon, was partly down when some person had him by the left leg--had his hand there, (indicating).

Q When did Fielden fire that shot that you say that he fired? Was it before he left the wagon or when he was on his way off of the wagon?

A When he was about to drop off the wagon, get off the wagon, just at the same time.

Q At the same time that he said: "We are peaceable"?

A Yes, at the same time.

A JUROR (Mr. Greiner): Let me ask him, was it after, immediately after he had uttered those words that he shot?,

A When he said; "We are peaceable".

Q Yes. Was it immediately following that?

A Immediately, and hadn't the expression quite finished.

Q Well, do I understand he was inside the wagon box or on the ground?

A No sir. It was a truck, a truck wagon, and he was about to get down from it, and had partly got down and somebody had his--

MR. BLACK: Was starting to get down?

MR. GRINNELL: Yes.

Q Where was Ward in reference to that pistol?

A Ward at that time had not quite finished his expression.

Q How near was Ward to him?

A He was right close to the wagon.

Q How was that pistol aimed, in your opinion, at that time--in your estimation, who was that pistol aimed at, if anybody?

A It was aimed in that position (indicating downward direction). And Ward stood there (indicating), and Lieutenant Steele stood to the right of his Company, and that was the right of them, and Steele was there and Bonfield was here, I think (indicating). I was pretty certain

he was there and Ward was on the other side, Ward was in front of him, just as close--well, within a few steps of the wagon.

Q Had the police fired before the bomb exploded?

A No.

Q Who fired--from what source did the firing begin immediately upon the explosion of the bomb?

A It commenced from Fielden--was the first pistol fired--that is, the speaker; I would not be positive whether it was Fielden or not, but the speaker at that instant that that we came up is the one that fired the shot.

Q What did you see of the explosion of the bomb? Describe it to these gentlemen so that they can see it,-- whatever you saw?

A Well, after I was looking to the front and had discharged my weapon I looked back--and I could see that there was a regular--just the same as you would take a bunch of fire-crackers and throw it around, just shooting up in all directions in the rear. I had looked around and some of the men were lying down, some of them lying dead, some crippled, around, all along on the street, on Desplaines street, all north of Randolph street the lamps were dark; it was dark up there up to Fulton street; with the exception of where the speaker was. Where the speaker was there was a torch on that wagon, and also

the lamp was lit there.

Q Was there a street lamp at that corner right near that wagon?

A Right near the wagon there was a street lamp.

Q You had fired off your pistols?

A Yes sir.

Q Emptied them?

A Yes sir.

Q Turned around to look at the result of the explosion?

A Yes sir. And then I went over in under the wagon and where the speaker was and I found a pistol there, that was loaded.

MR. SOLOMON: Loaded, did you say?

A Yes sir.

MR. GRINNELL: You found a pistol at the wagon?

A Yes sir.

Q Was it empty or loaded?

A It was loaded. I used it myself afterwards.

Q You picked it up and emptied it yourself?

A Afterwards.

Q Have you it with you?

A I have not it with me, no sir.

Q What caliber of pistol was it?

A Thirty eight, Smith & Wesson.

Q How were the lights on the street, besides the one you have mentioned at the corner of the aley?

A They were dark, all north of Randolph street to the raise on Des-Plaines street viaduct; that is Fulton.

Q They had been previously lighted in the evening,

and afterwards put out by somebody?

A That I don't know whether they were lighted or not; they were dark then.

Q They were turned out, were they?

A Well, they were dark at that time, I don't know.

Q How about lights other places on the street?

A They were lit all south of Randolph street--they were lit. I remained there until two o'clock on the ground looking after the--

Q Between Randolph and Lake there were no lights lit except that one at the alley?

A That was all, on Des Plaines street.

Q That is where the speakers were?

A Yes sir. And that was put out afterward, that is, when the firing commenced, that was put out. They were all dark--that is, after the fighting commenced, the shooting.

A JUROR: (Mr. Cole) You state in your evidence that a Mr. Fielden got off of the wagon, he fired his pistol down that way (indicating)?

A Just in the act of getting off, somebody had him by the left leg in about that way (indicating).

Q Yes, that is what I want to know.

A And he fired right down that way (indicating), and then after he got down I don't know how many were fired after that.

Q You stated first that somebody took hold of his leg?

A Had him by the leg, yes sir.

Q That is the only shot he fired as he got off the wagon?

A That is the only shot that I noticed, because then, the firing, as I said, commenced, but he was then in the act of getting down; that was in the midst.

MR. GRINNELL: How many shots did you say Fielden fired?

A I seen that one.

Q That is all. You saw him fire one shot, and you have described that one shot?

A Yes. Then the firing commenced all around with us.

A JUROR (Mr. Brayton) Was he apparently firing at the man who had hold of his leg?

A No sir.

Q Did it appear that the pistol was aimed in that way?

A No sir, because, as I said, he had the arm on one leg, and the man was addressing--which was Captain Ward; and Bonfield and Lieutenant Steele, they were right in a bunch close together, and it should have hit some one of them, and Steele was to the right of his Company and the first four was right close to him. My company had advanced a little further than his on account of receiving the command through hearing him, I turned around to the company and hollered "Halt" to them, and the right --or the left of my company had swung a little more in front than what the right of it did, my being at the right myself.

Q Bringing it up more facing to the wagon?

A Yes.

Q Mr. Quinn, how long have you been on the Police Force?

A About sixteen years.

Q Your company constituted a part of the first rank I suppose at the time they marched up to Des Plaines street?

A It did.

Q You were on the left of Lieutenant Steele?

A I was.

Q How far were you from Lieutenant Steele as you marched down?

A Well, about what twelve ordinary men would cover, the space that they would cover.

Q He was at the right of his company and you were at the right of yours?

A Well, he was at the time we halted.

Q And you were in front of your company at the time you halted?

A Yes sir.

Q You did not at any time assume the command of his men, did you?

A I did.

Q Before the firing?

A No sir.

Q Well, before the firing did you at any time assume the command of any portion of his company?

A No sir.

Q Then you were not in front of any portion of his company before the firing?

A Yes, I would be in front of them

all the time, but on the left of them.

Q Well, I mean, geographically in front. It is true you were further advanced?

A You mean directly in front of them?

Q I mean just what I say--in front of them. I do not mean further advanced?

A Well, I was in front of them, yes.

Q That is, they were behind you?

A They were behind me, not directly behind me, but they would be behind my front

Q You mean you were further north than they were?

A I was further north, yes.

Q Well, I understand, then, you were not in front of them, that is, on a direct line from north to south from you back you would come to your men and not his?

A Yes.

Q Were you immediately at the right of your company, or near the right of your company?

A Pretty near the right of my company-- more to ward--pretty near the right of the company, yes.

Q Well, what do you say to half way between the center and the right?

A I say in the center, then, if I say half way between the right.

Q No, you do not say in the center?

A Then I would say in the center if you say so.

Q No, I don't mean that; I mean between the right of your company. Suppose a point which would be half way

between the center of your company and the right of your company, that is, a quarter way down the line?

A Yes.

Q Would that about define your position with reference to your company?

A No sir.

Q You were further to the right than that?

A The two companies come very near covering the entire space, the width of street in marching; consequently it would bring me very near the center of that street.

Q I understand. You do not get my idea. You were walking in front of your men two paces, were you not?

A In front of the right of my company, yes.

Q Now, what I mean is, were you in front of the man which was number one, the man of the front rank, or were you further to the left than that?

A Well, I do not know exactly. I might be to the front of No. Two or Three; I was very close to the right.

Q Now, were you as near to the wagon when the halt was ordered as Lieutenant Steele and Captain Ward, either of them from there?

A I was not as hear, but I was in a better place than they; I had a better view.

Q I did not ask you to argue it? Wait a minute. Don't argue this case.

A No sir.

Q The question was, you were not as near to the wagon as Captain Steele and Captain Ward, were you?

A No sir, I was not.

Q How much further from the wagon were you than Lieutenant Steele at the time the Company was halted?

A I guess about twenty feet--twenty five maybe; I thinik the street is sixty-six feet street. I don't know. I think about twenty-five, twenty or twenty five feet.

Q Then you would say that Lieutenant Steele was twenty five feet nearer Fielden, if he was the speaker, or nearer the wagon than you were, at the time the halt was ordered?

A Yes, I think he was.

Q Now, up to the time of the firing, did you change your position from what you assumed at the time the halt was ordered?

A Yes sir.

Q Before the firing?

A Yes sir.

Q Did you go over to the wagon?

A I changed my position.

Q Did you go over to the wagon or go any nearer to the wagon?

A No sir.

Q Didn't you go nearer to the wagon?

A No sir.

Q Now, when the halt was ordered didn't you turn around to see whether your men dressed up in line?

A At the time the halt was ordered?

Q Yes sir?

A Yes sir.

Q Who ordered a halt?

A I don't know exactly who ordered the halt; I heard it, or heard the halt.

Q You do know, don't you, as a matter of fact, that Captain Ward commenced making the declaration to the mob to disperse before the order was given to halt?

A Yes, I

do.

Q At the time that Captain Ward was saying, "Disperse; I command you in the name of the People of the State of Illinois to disperse, and I call upon the citizens, you and you, to assist me", you were then marching?

A That is right.

Q Then about that time you heard the command, "Halt" given?

A Yessir.

Q Then you turned around--you of course repeated it to your company, did you not?

A Yes sir.

Q And as you repeated it, and turned around facing your company?

A Facing it.

Q The company, facing your men that were behind you?

A Yes sir.

Q And with your back to the crowd, and your back and side toward the wagon?

A Yes sir.

Q And you repeated the order to "Halt"?

A Yes sir.

Q This was immediately or very soon after you had heard Captain Ward say, "In the name of the People of the State of Illinois I command you to disperse as an unlawful assembly", or words to that effect, "And I call upon citizens, you and you, to assist us", or "Assist me". You heard all that before the order to halt came, didn't you?

A Before the order of halt came?.

Q Yes--was given?

A No sir. It was not finished, the sentence was not finished.

Q Well, he was progressing somewhat.

A That was not finished.

Q So, then, at the time that that was given, the first words that you heard of the "Halt", and a considerable portion of it, you were marching along, stil facing the wagon?

A Still facing the wagon.

Q Well, facing up the street?

A No sir? While marching I was facing to the north.

Q And up the street. I call it up. Do you call it down? If you do, I will call it down.

A You can call it whatever you are a mind to.

Q Which is it, up or down?

A Well, we will cal it north and south and east and west.

Q Very well, then, you were marching north?

A Yes sir.

Q At the time that the declaration was made for the mob to disperse?

A Yes sir.

Q Now then did you hear Mr. Fielden say a word after that, from the wagon?

A After "Disperse"?

Q After the end of the sentence by Captain Ward. Did you hear him say anything before you turned around to dress up your company in line?

A After Captain Ward had finished his sentence, did you say?

Q Yes.

A No sir, I did not.

Q Didn't hear a word from Mr. Fielden?

A Because he had--

Q I don't ask you why. You did not hear him say a word after the conclusion of Captain Ward's remarks?

A No sir.

Q Did Captain Ward repeat that twice?

A No sir, not that I know of.

Q Only once?

A Yes.

Q At the time you had halted your company and dressed up the lines Captain Ward was through with what he had to say, was he not?

A Well, I could not tell you what was in his mind. He may have had something more to say, I could not tell.

Q I don't ask you what was in his mind. I ask you whether or not Captain Ward was through, what you heard him say on that occasion?

A Yes sir. He had finished what he had said.

Q Very well then, he made no further remark?

A He did not repeat it over again to disperse; he simply made the one declaration?

A Yes sir.

Q And from the time that you turned around from facing your company back in the direction of the wagon, there wasn't another word said by Captain Ward, was there?

A I did not hear him; I don't know whether there was

or not.

Q You did not hear anything of that kind?

A I did not hear it.

Q Did Fielden start to go off of the wagon before you commanded the the word "Halt" to your company??--Just tell us, you certainly know. You must know.

THE COURT: Give the man time to think.

MR. FOSTER: All right, Think Now.

A Well, I will think. Just that same time when the command "Halt" was--as he said "Peaceable" that was the time that I was looking at him.

Q That don't answer my question. Had he started to leave the wagon at the time you heard the command "Halt"?

A No.

Q He had not at that time?

A No sir, not at that moment, no sir.

Q Did he start to leave the wagon immediately after the conclusion of what Captain Ward said?

A He did.

Q Immediately after the conclusion?

A Before he had the conclusion finished.

Q He started to leave before he had the conclusion finished?

A That is, a portion ofit.

Q Before Ward had finished, Fielden started to leave the wagon, is that right? Before Captain Ward had finished with what he said, Fielden started to leave the wagon?

A Yes sir, because as I say the balance--

Q Don't argue it. Just answer. Yes is a full answer Then before Captain Ward got through with his statement that he made there, Fielden had started to get off the wagon, hadn't he?

A He was partly down on the wagon.

Q Now, then, how far had Captain Ward got when the order of "Halt" was given?

A Well, I am pretty certain he got as far as "And you and you". I think that is about as far as he got, "You and you"--.

Q Now then, he got this far: "In the name of the People of the State of Illinois, I command you to disperse as an unlawful assembly".

A Now, you must understand me that I was not positive whether it was Captain Ward that used that word or Inspector Bonfield.

Q I know you were not; you don't know enough about what was going on where to know which of the two it was.

A Thank you, sir.

MR. GRINNELL: That is not right. You have no business to make comments to him. I object.

THE COURT: Counsel should on each side confine themselves when interrogating a witness to questions to the witness, without any exhortation to the witness or any comments on what he says.

MR. FOSTER: (Q) You say that you do not know who commanded, or who made the command to disperse, whether it was Ward or Bonfield?

A I could not be positive, but I am

certain it was Captain Ward.

Q How long have you known Ward?

A Well, I have known Ward about fourteen years; not very familiar with his voice.

Q How long have you known Bonfield?

A I know him about eight or ten years.

Q You know their voices well, don't you?

A Well, I know it better now than I did then.

Q Didn't you know it then well enough so that if you had heard either of them step up and speak to you that you would have known?

A Yes, if they stepped up to me--yes.

Q You would know their voices well enough--their voices are no where alike are they?

A Well, as I said, I was not so very familiar with their voices at that time.

Q Well, then, you didn't pay attention enough?

A I heard the remark.

Q Wait a minute. You did not pay attention enough to know whether it was Ward of Bonfield that ordered the mob to disperse, did you?

A I aint so positive, but I am pretty certain it was Ward.

Q You think now it was Ward?

A Yes, I say that I think it was Ward.

Q You think that he had made the declaration, whichever one it was now, had made this declaration, "In the name

of the People of Illinois, I command you to disperse, as an unlawful assembly, and I call upon you and you", and then you heard the order, "Halt"? Is that right?

A That is right.

Q Then did you listen to hear what took place after that from Ward, or whatever his name was, until you turned around, and repeated the order to, your company, and dressed up your line?

A I did not dress them up; I did not have time to dress them up.

Q Before the bomb was exploded?

A Yes sir.

Q Yes, you turned around and--

A And looked and stopped.

Q Now, wait a minute. Yes is a full answer. You turned around and as soon as the words, "And I call upon you and you", and you heard the order, "Halt", you turned to your company, didn't you?

A I did.

Q Did you turn back away from the company before the bomb exploded?

A I did.

Q I thought you said you did not have time to dress up your men.

THE COURT: That is not a question for the witness.

MR. FOSTER: (Q) Now, how is that, Mr. Quinn. Did you have time to dress up your lines before the bomb exploded?

A No sir, I did not.

Q Then, if I understand you, you turned with your

back to the north and your face to your men as soon as you heard the order to "Halt" and repeated that order to your men. Is that so?

A Yes. That is, I turned more to the west.

Q More to the west?

A Yes.

Q With your back to the east?

A A With my back a little toward the east.

Q And towards the wagon?

A Yes.

Q And then you repeated the order to your company?

A Yes sir.

Q And then before you had time to dress the lines of your squad, the bomb exploded behind you or behind them?

A Just at that moment as I turned back and heard the remarks, "You and you" the bomb and the pistol exploded as I had turned to the north, before I dressed the company.

Q Now, then, Mr. Fielden at the time that this declaration to disperse was made was standing up right in the wagon, was he not?,

A He was in the wagon, yes.

Q He had not started to leave the wagon when Captain Ward or whoever it was, started to make the declaration to disperse?

A No, sir.

Q And they had only said what you say now. Now, you intended to dress the lines of your company, did you not?

A Well, I would if I thought there was any chance

Q I did not ask you what you thought, but did you intend to dress the lines?

A I did not.

Q You did not intend?

A No.

MR. GRINNELL: How is what his intentions were material? The question is what he did.

MR. FOSTER: Well, at the time you turned around to command the order of "Halt" the bomb had not exploded, had it?

A No sir.

Q Very well, then,--now, you turned around before the explosion of the bomb to repeat the order?

A That is right? is it?

A Yes.

Q How long after your turned around was it before the bomb exploded? Did you have time to repeat the order?

A What is your question?

Q Had you repeated the order at the time the bomb exploded to "Halt"?

A I had.

Q And did it explode immediately after you repeated the order to halt?

A Well, probably about two or three seconds afterwards?

Q What were you doing during the two or three seconds?

A I had turned around and was looking at Mr.--at the speaker, and the crowd in front; that is what took my time.

Q Mr. Quinn, don't you know that in your experience as a commanding officer of the police force, you always dressed the lines of the squad after you halt?

Q I will ask you whether you did not do so, on that occasion?

A I did not.

Q You did not do it on that occasion.--Did you see the bomb explode?

A I did not.

Q You did not see it explode--

A That is, I did not see the bomb when it was thrown, but I saw, as I said, just the same as there would be a bunch of fire chackers.

Q In the act of exploding?

A After this loud explosion first, very loud explosion, then afterwards this second explosion.

Q Well, at the time that you heard the first?

A That is after the first.

Q At the time you heard the first loud explosion it was in the rear of your company was it, further south than your company?

A Further south?

Q Yes.

A Well, I do not know exactly where it dropped behind me, for I wasn't looking that way.

Q Well, you saw from what you say, was a bunch of firecrackers?

A That is after the first bomb explosion.

Q Certainly.

A After this loud explosion I told the men to pay no attention to it--to keep quiet.

Q You what?

A That is what I told them, not to pay any attention to it, to look forward; that is at that instant while I was looking.

Q Now, I understand you to say, or did you--is that a

fact that you turned around to give the order to halt, and before you turned back again that the order of Mr. Ward was complete, and he said nothing after that time? Is that right?

A After I had given the command to halt, I looked around, and at that time Capt. Ward had come pretty near finishing his sentence, and he got to the word "you and you", and at that time, as I was looking in that direction the bomb and the pistol from the speaker's hand went off about the same time.

Q Now, then, you had given the word to halt, before Capt. Bonfield, or Lieutenant Steele, or Capt. Ward, whichever one it was, come to "you and you", you say you had already halted your company before he said it?

A Yes sir, that is right.

Q That is right?

A Yes sir.

Q That is, you do not mean to say now that you stood advancing until he had got to the words "you and you" before you heard the words to halt--you do not mean that?

A I do not mean what? I do not understand your question.

Q You do not mean you advanced, marched right along?

A Yes sir.

Q Until Ward had got so much of his declaration made as to say, "and I call upon you and you" before you heard

the word "Halt" at all?

A Oh, no sir. The word "Halt" was given before that.

Q Given before that sentence?

A Yes sir. At that time I said I turned around, at that sentence.

Q I think I understand you.

A Well, if you do, it is sufficient.

Q Now, you say it was light around there?

A I say it was light up to where the wagon was.

Q They had a torch on the wagon?

A Yes sir.

Q And there is a street lamp right there at the corner of the alley?

A Yes sir.

Q So that you could see distinctly.

A Well, not distinctly; you could see pretty well.

Q Well, you could see the faces of the man well enough to know him of course.

A No; not unless he was pretty familiar with the man, you would not.

Q Now, you say you looked at Mr. Fielden, with his whiskers on?

A Yes sir.

Q As he probably wore them some time ago, from their appearance. You cannot recognize whether he is the man at all that you saw fire a pistol?

A Well, I would not swear that it was him. I would not swear it was him or that it was not him, but it was a speaker; that I know.

Q Well, was he speaking then? Was he speaking at the time the XXXX took place?

A At the instant that he

had finished "We are Peaceable". That is the time he fired.

Q Who was he talking to?

A I suppose talking to the officer.

Q I do not ask you what you suppose. Do you know who he was talking to?

A I do not know.

THE COURT: That is not fair, Mr. Foster, because necessarily the witness cannot know to whom another man is talking, when he is talking.

MR. FOSTER: That is what I ask him, if he does know.

THE WITNESS: I do not know.

Q Do you know whether he was addressing Captain Ward?

A I could not tell you.

Q Capt. Ward was right near by him there, wasn't he?

A Yes.

Q Do you know whether he was addressing Lieut. Steele?

A Who do you mean was addressing him?

Q The man that says "This is a peaceable meeting", or, that "We are inclined to be peaceable", or "We are peaceable" whatever the expression was, the man that made that remark--do you know whether he was addressing Lieut. Steele or not?

A I do not know who he was addressing.

Q Lieut. Steele was right close there, wasn't he?

A He was.

Q Right close by?

A Yes sir.

Q He got out of the wagon, and there you say deliberately,

while standing in the wagon, in the presence of the police force, and of all the audience, there he fired a revolver?

A Yes sir.

Q Did he fire at the police?

A He fired right where Lieut. Steele was.

Q Right where he was?

A And Capt. Ward and the right of Lieut. Steele's Company.

Q Then fired right where these men were?

A Right where they were, right into them.

Q They were not any of them wounded, were they?

MR. GRINNELL: By that pistol shot, do you mean? You can ask him if he knows.

MR. FOSTER: I ask him if any of them were wounded?

MR. GRINNELL: The implication is that you mean wounded by that pistol shot.

MR. FOSTER: There were not any of them wounded, were there?

THE WITNESS: Who are "they".

Q Who do you mean by "they"? I mean just the "them" that you mean when you say Lieut. Steele and Capt. Ward.

A Not that I know of.

Q The torch was still on the wagon at this time, wasn't it?

A At that time, it was.

Q And the lamp post near by was lighted?

A That was lit at that time, yes.

Q Mr. Quinn, were you on the detective force at any time in this City?

A Now, what do you mean by detective force? There is some difference in detective force, or in detective duty. There is in certain different cases, and I would like to know what he means, whether I can answer yes or no in that question.

Q Well, did you do detective duty as an officer?

A I have.

Q For how many years?

A Well, I have done it maybe for two years, sometimes three days and sometimes a week.

That is what you would term detective duty, kind of working up a certain case, something of that kind. That is, you would take off your brass buttons.

A I don't know whether you would term that detective duty or police duty.

Q Well, don't take my dictionary for a guide; we are taking yours. That is, you would take off your blue clothes and brass buttons, and go out as a citizen to work up something as a detective, sometimes two or three days at a time.

A Well not--I do not understand you.

Q You do not?

A No sir. I will give that up.

Q You will have to give, it up?

A Yes sir.

Q Now, what did you mean when you said sometimes you would go out for a day and sometimes for two days; sometimes

for three days, to work up something. What did you mean by that?

A Well, I mean by that, that for instance there is a certain man who had a warrant on that had stole something; we would go around and we could get a little closer to him.

Q You would want to arrest him?

A Yes, and we would get a little closer to him and probably arrest him.

Q Probably confidence him a little? Get into conversation with him?

A Oh, not exactly that. That would take a part of it, yes.

Q That would be a part of it?

A Yes.

Q And for how many years were you engaged in that busines?

A I do not suppose I was engaged one year.

Q Was that since you were on the police force?

A I was not engaged at any one time a year.

Q At how many different years have you been engaged--a part of the time, I mean, in that kind of work?

A Well, I may go home to-morrow and the Captain might detail me out in citizen's clothes, and I might be in two hours, from now, if I should go out of this court.

Q You mean you are doing that duty now, are you?

A I am liable to do any moment--to be sent on that business.

Q And have been ever since you have been on the force?

A Ever since I went into police--I joined it-- I am subject to those orders at any moment.

MR. GRINNELL: So is every other policeman.

THE WITNESS: So is all officers.

THE COURT: There is a matter that I want to ask Lieut. Quinn.

Q I understood you to say that Desplaines street was a sixty-six feet street. Do you mean from curbstone to curbstone, or from building line to building line?

A Yes sir; I said that I thought it was about a sixty-six feet street there; I thought it was about that width; that is, from curb to curb,--that is, I think it was.

Q That is your idea of the distance from curb to curb?

A Yes.

MR. GRINNELL: The plat shows it.

MR. BLACK--(Referring to plat.) It is forty-eight feet from curb to curb, and sixteen feet alley on each side, making it an eighty foot street.

THE WITNESS: But it is sixty-six feet from curb to curb.

MR. INGHAM: Forty-eight.

THE WITNESS: Forty-eight; I do not know exactly, to say.